I must admit I use to hold the opinion that it will be easier for someone to convert me to a religion than accept the notion of the need of a dedicated defensive midfielder in any attractive footballing side as such as Arsenal.
As a youngster my favourite team was the Ajax team of the mid- 80βs and mid-90βs. Ajax won the champions league title in 1995 with the set of players that included Litmanen, Davids, Overmars, Patrick Kluivert, the de Boer brothers, Blind and Rijkaard. Up against the team in that final were names such as Gullit, Baresi, Paolo Maldini, Donadoni, Boban and SaviΔeviΔ.
Amongst that line up was a young Edgar Davids who had been nicknamed βthe pit-bullβ by Van Gaal. He moved to AC Milan at the start of theΒ 1996β97 season. After an unsuccessful spell where he failed to establish himself in the first team he moved on to league rivalsΒ Juventus F.C.Β Β The reason behind that move was not because he was a bad player but because he was not similar to previous Dutch imports like Marco Van Basten and Ruud Gullit.
Fast forward a few years ahead and there was a 5 feet 5 inches tall player plying his trade for Real Madrid called Claude MakΓ©lelΓ©. Amongst the GalΓ‘cticos he would have been like comparing Igor Stepanovs to Tony Adams. For those not familiar with Stepanovs a better comparison will be like comparing Denilson to Patrick Vieira.
When he left Real Madrid for Chelsea in 2003, this was what Perez had to say of him:
We will not miss MakΓ©lelΓ©. His technique is average; he lacks the speed and skill to take the ball past opponents, and ninety percent of his distribution either goes backwards or sideways. He wasnβt a header of the ball and he rarely passed the ball more than three metres. Younger players will arrive who will cause MakΓ©lelΓ© to be forgotten.
That comment in my opinion was a very diplomatic version of what most of the Real Madrid fans would have said about MakΓ©lelΓ©. Some fans even called Perez a genius for getting more than a million euro for him.
On the other hand this was what Zidane had to say when he was asked about that transfer and David Beckhamβs arrival – βWhy put another layer of gold paint on the Bentley when you are losing the entire engine?β Those familiar with Spanish football or football in particular know what unfolded in both camps between 2003 and 2007.
Just before Chelseaβs dominance in the EPL, Arsene Wenger bought Gilberto Silva from AtlΓ©tico Mineiro after his unnoticeable performances in the 2002 World Cup. At that time the comments of most of the Sky pundits and commentators were βthere are surely better Brazilian players than himβ. One even said Alex Ferguson had bought the better Brazilian in KlΓ©berson. We all know what happened afterwards after Gilbertoβs impressive debut goal in the community shield.
Later on, when Arsene Wenger was asked why he sold Patrick Vieira in 2005, his response was βbecause I have Gilberto Silvaβ. Many laughed at him for that comment. Β Still to this day I hear so called experts on T.V call Patrick Vieira a defensive midfielder whilst he has never been one within his career.
When things started to go badly for us in 2007 and fans began to ask Wenger why he kept selecting Gilberto Silva when he could not pass a ball, Arsene Wenger said his reason was because Gilberto was like an invisible wallβ. So this tells us that Arsene Wenger knows the importance of having an βinvisible wallβ in midfield. Β I remember being at the Emirates one Saturday afternoon and whenever he gave the ball away the fans got on his back for it.
Was the treatment of Gilberto Silva in his last season with Arsenal the reason why Wenger has not bought a purely dedicated βanchor-manβ since?
Since then we have had players like Denilson, who was a Brazilian youth international by the way and courted by teams like Real Madrid previously, being disliked by all sections of our fans because his passing was not like Fabregas. The treatment was so bad that he went from a player whom in 2008 had one of the best stats to being barely able to pass a ball 2 metre backwards.
We now have Frimpong who in my opinion has the potential to be world-class however, some fans have never forgiven him for getting a second yellow card against Liverpool on his EPL debut last August even though up until his sending off he was everyoneβs Man-Of- The βMatch.
After the 2011 Emirates Cup match against Boca JuniorsΒ midfielderΒ Juan Roman Riquelme said βFrimpong is the most important player for Arsenalβ¦ he is one of the strongest midfielders I have ever played againstββ. For those who may not value the weight of that comment just do a quick search for him on YouTube. He was a dime of a playmaker who kept Santi Cazorla on the bench at Villarreal most times.
So why do Arsenal fans prefer Francis Coquelin to Emmanuel Frimpong as a defensive midfielder when he has never played in that position for Arsenal by himself ? Frimpong on the other hand has played in very important games for Arsenal last season when Song was suspended and not conceded a single goal. Those games included Udinese home and away in the championβs league and our first win of last season against Swansea. In the champions league matches he kept Di Natale quiet playing as the anchor-man whilst Song played further forward.
Last summer most fans were calling for the signing of Yann MβVilla but what percentage of those fans had even seen him play a match? To me he was a carbon copy of Denilson in playing style but most will disagree. In my opinion there were 2 or 3 other players who would have come cheaper and with less baggage than him, but feel free to disagree with me.
Are Arsenal fans ready to accept the shortcomings of a true defensive midfielder for the positives he shall bring to the team or will we sulk because he is not as skilful as Jack Wilshere when his passes are not up to our standard?
So as a new convert to the importance of this undervalued role, I believe the success of our season will depend on how well who ever plays as a defensive midfielder performs and in the end, Arsene has to invest in a very capable one, to compliment what we have.
Written by TalkShiteGingerHater
Morning all. Great post. As much as I love Frimmy, he needs to calm down a lot. He’s obviously got the talent, his love of the club and commitment can never be questioned…. But he is too rash. Too often. If he gets that sorted, then he has the potential to be outstanding. And I must admit, I’m loving Arteta in that role at the moment.
Good morning all,
What a fabulous morning, isn’t it great to be alive?
Right I shall now read, what at first glance, appears to be a very interesting post.
Back in a while.
Goes off singing a selection from Oklahoma…Oh what a beautiful morning……..
Morning all
I too am off for a read….
Hmmmm….I’m going to disagree about M’Vila. He and denilson are totally different in my opinion. M’Vila has an excellent passing range both short and long and far better vision than Denilson, who stagnated at Arsenal. Totally agree re Frimpong though, I have high hopes for him as long as he stay’s fit.
What a great read Tsgh, you know my view on a DM, I’d love us to sign Capoue or similar.
Arteta is doing a great job but one injury to him and really stuck.
Frimpong over Coquelin for me any day of the week, he has the right passion, desire and work ethic, and thankfully he seems to have finally got away from all the tweeting etc and concentrated on his return from injury.
Whether his temperament has yet changed is a concern but I strongly suspect it will, after all, Brady once said that temperament was a downfall for jack, but he’s sorted himself out.
See how he is against Reading in the CO Cup I guess.
I think we’ve got a nice balance in midfield at the moment, the only thing I’d like to see if a new midfielder were brought in is a bit of height to help on set-pieces. As long as your two midfielders are both willing to work hard and interchange intelligently there is no need for someone quite so limited as Makelele.
From what I’ve seen, I agree that M’vila is quite like Denilson but with a little more penetration on his passing and a little more power, hence I think he’d be kinda perfect to complement most of our midfielders but compared to the Coq the only thing he’d bring is a little more height as Coq is strong, tenacious and a damn good passer too.
Also,. Frimpong is loved as we’ve seen too many midfielders get pushed around and intimidated, you know that isn’t going to happen to him but if he can channel everything he has the right way he could be a potent weapon.
Good Morning my Esteemed Fellow Gunners.
TSGH………good article and nice opinions.
One of the opinion I enjoyed reading was that many AFC supporters, although they have every right for an opinion, are constantly comparing present players to past players. That is totally wrong. I cannot compare Song to Gilberto because they are a totally different animal on the pitch. Denilson cannot be compared to PV04…….starting with his physical build.
Hell we cannot even compare Caz the Gazzzzzzz with Cesc, even though they are playing in the same position. IMO at the moment Caz the Gazzzz is having a greater influence on the team than if Cesc would have been playing simply because he makes the others tick and improves those around him and at the same time covers more ground than Cesc.
Of course having him and Cesc in the same team would be great. But that would mean shunting him to the wing since we cannot do without Arteta. Imagine a midfield of Arteta and Wilshere with Cesc in front of them having Caz the Gazzzzzz on the right and Poldi on the left. We will humiliate Barca with that forward line.
TSGH……….Denilson was and is good. Maybe as you said…..AFC fans got on his back and this caused probs with his mentality. Whatever he did he was always in the wrong in the eyes of fans. Personally I feel that he may yet one day return. A different player than the one who left.
Hi DS and welcome to HH…
Morning all….good read tsgh! Glad you’re ok JW!!!!
Morning all,
Nice post Ginger hater, i can see you thought about this post, your memory is excelent as well, the names you have mentioned brings back memories of some fine matches sadly my memory is not that good but i do remember the players, You appear to be a fan of our own Frimps me too, but where do we fit him in and who do we move to fit him in. Having said that that is the reason for bigger squads and ours is getting bigger, The worry i have is how long some of these players will wait around in the wings before they start looking elsewhere for regular football. Frimps is the kind of player who is learning fast i like the no nonsence part about him his run through walls attitude he could go far but will he, like many others, will they realy get a decent chance hopefully yes, just glad i’m not Wenger.
Devil, I think Denilson’s parting salvo was enough to burn most bridges and show it was down to him rather than the fans getting on his back; when a guy starts bleating about how he needs to win trophies and everyone else around him is at fault but not himself, he’s got a serious attitude problem.
Cheers Rico, long time listener, first time caller or something like that…
Morning devil,
I’m not sure we compare players, just want a player to be able to do similar to what someone before was able to do. Want new signings to up to a similar standard.
The only comparison between Song and Gilberto was they both often gave away the ball, but Gilberto could read a game and would so often be in the right place at the right time to stop an attack, the only way Song usually stopped one was with a sloppy tackle.. π
Denilson – I hope he never returns
Morning Steve, Lee..
Hope you stick around DS, we don’t bite on here π
I didn’t like Denilsons comments about Cesc either, he may have been right with his view, but you don’t bleat to the press about things like that. All it does is give the media stuff to batter us with..
Obviously if the present incumbents stay fit and still play for AFC it will be impossible to see a return from either CESC or Denilson. I am quite happy with the present lot.
But with Capoue in the team I will be slightly happier.
But I agree with what you lot say regarding Frimpong. The best thing for him is that he has Arteta and Cazorla guiding him. That goes also for Yennaris, Wilshere, Ox etc. Personally I love Frimpong and see him as a future DM. However I still see Yennaris as the heir apparent to Arteta.
Coquelin, although I like him also, I feel he is a better bet playing as a fullback alternating between Jenks and Gibbs on the right/left of the back line.
You CAN compare players if they are of the same ilk. I agree, Denilson is nothing like Vieira. Cazorla and Cesc aren’t too dissimilar at all though. Both always looking for the ball and making the team tick. And sorry Dev, I also have to disagree with you about Denilson. I just simply do not see the point of him. Offers pretty much nothing, But that’s just how I see it!
What is a defensive midfielder? Is it the Gennaro Gatuso model? A hard man who can not only break up attacks but can break up attackers as well. Is it the Gilberto Silva model? a ghost who can spirit the ball away from attackers seemingly without getting near them. Is it the Patrick Vierra model? An action man determined to impose himself on the game, whether on the pitch or in the tunnel.
The game has changed so much over the past twenty years that the βGGβ and the βPVβ would, nowadays, be largely ruled out by the superior technique of players like Iniesta, Xavi, and our own Santi Cazorla, as well as the diving tendencies of such exponents of the art as Suarez, Bale and a string of others. One other factor that militates against the βGGβ and βPVβ models is the referees apparent belief that Football is now a non-contact sport.
We older fans fondly remember our previous Defensive Midfielders, although we knew them as Half-Backs, players like our own Tommy Docherty and Peter Storey, Dave MacKay, at Spurs, Billy Bremer and Johnny Giles, at Leeds and of course, the toothless assassin, Nobby Styles. None of the above would nowadays last beyond the first fifteen minutes before receiving a red card from our current crop of referees.
So I think the only realistic option left for us is the βGSβ. Much as I admire the strength, enthusiasm and sheer power of young Frimpong, I think maybe RockyRocastle 07 has it right when he says βhe is too rash, too oftenβ.
This season we have seen the development of a new model, set to replace the βGSβ, the βMAβ is coming along very nicely.
I actually think Coquelin will leave in the summer…
i really enjoyed that article TSGH– i wonder now if Arsenes thinking hasnt shifted with changing times, about a purely defensive midfielder.. he seems to want to have a more versatile player in that spot to give more flexibility..so far, its working, especially with the back four being more organized and disciplined……aside from set pieces ineptitude, the defensive play of the whole team has been excellent.
JW – MA is coming along very nicely indeed!
Rico, I can’t see Le Coq staying either. Already expressed whe wants first team action this year. Personally, I think he should just button it, and graft.
Denilson came as an advanced midfielder and having Cesc in his position did not help. Like you said you cannot bleat about others in the press and his parting salvo did not help even though he may have been right. However it does not diminish the fact that if viewed as a player in his own right, and if you see the games he plays for Sao Paolo you will see a different player to the one who left us.
What Dick pointed out was correct. But an attitude is also shaped by those around you so maybe deep down he is not what he appeared to be. He may have got jealous of the fact that Cesc was always given his preferred position and was the team’s general. Dont get me wrong…..Cesc was above everyone else technically and tactically. Above Denilson also. However I think that without Cesc in the way we might have been singing a different song about Denilson.
The problem with Cesc was that……he was above everyone else. The difference between Cazorla and Cesc was that Cazorla has his equals…….TommyV, Mertesacker, Arteta, Podolski, Giroud. Cesc was on a different wavelength to everyone. The present team has many on the same wavelength.
JW – regarding Frimps, are we all judging him on that Liverpool game which Tsgh refers to in the post?
What about all the other games that are mentioned and the complimentary comments he has received.
I’d like to see what he is like this season, he may just surprise a few with his attitude. He is a year older, just maybe he is a year wiser too…
Know what you are saying Dev, but Denilson never looked like he had “it”. Rarely found a killer pass. Rarely outpaced a referee, and seemed to lack that certain je ne sais quoi that others had. Just don’t rate him at all, and personally hope he stays away from the Ems. Lets face it, he certainly would not improve our team if he came back.
Hiya Rocky, how are you mate??? Fine I hope
With us he offered nothing mate. With Sao Paolo he is a very different player. Maybe he has found his niche there and is settled.
He may have been a crap crab with us, but I still refuse to criticize him (like I do with Nasri,RVP and the TogoLump), when one gets to know the facts and it does make sense.
Hi Nt –
I think that the Yaya Toure style of play is the way forward. Now he really does play in a similar way to Paddy – he breaks things up and in a flash he is in the penalty area either setting up a goal or scoring himself.
rocky, even when he does play, he hardly excels does he? His last contract signing was AW ensuring he gets some money for him, in my opinion….
Thing is Rico, Frimmy always has that late lunge or poorly timed boot into someone’s groin/thigh in his locker. He’s made plenty of rash challenges other than the Liverpool match.
Serie A club Napoli have targeted Arsenal’s Vito Mannone as the long term replacement for Morgan De Sanctis and are rumoured to be about to offer around Β£4 million for the shot stopper.
Mannone has found himself as Arsenal number one this season following injuries to Woijech Szczesny and Lukas Fabianski and in doing so has received plaudits for his displays this season.
Napoli’s current number two Mattin Perin opted to join Genoa having recently moved there on loan this season and after his impressive form this season Napoli are stepping up their interest in Mannone.
The Italian’s contract runs out in the summer of 2014 and Arsenal will not want him to leave the club on a free, but it is almost certain that he will not want to fall back down the pecking order at the Emirates Stadium.
He told reporters: βNeither myself nor anyone from my family or friends have spoken about any deal,β he said.
βAt the moment I am really happy and just focusing on training and playing well. I am trying to be the No.1 for this club and win trophies. That is my only concern and I would like to make that clear.”
As well as interest from Naples, Mannone is also rumoured to be a target of Inter Milan and Wenger has conceded that in the last transfer window the 24 year old could have left the Gunners.
“When I sent Mannone to Hull, I watched him every single game and all the reports I had were very positive. I was quite surprised no club went for him because I would have let him go,” the Arsenal boss told reporters.
Could be, devil. Maybe he’s grown up a little now but it’s looking like there’s too much talent ahead of him now imo.
I don’t think Coq is going to move on, sure he seemed a little antsy about getting first team games but it’s a long season and he’ll get opportunities, Santi can’t play every game so Jack/Rambo will be double backup for the AM position, leaving Diaby/Arteta/Frimpong/Rosicky to generally fight it out for those two CMs or double pivots or DM and CM or whatever the hell they’re doing back there.
Good thanks Dev. REALLY busy though. Hope you’re well. I just think matches passed him by a bit here. Couldn’t adapt to the pace. He could well have found his ideal; place there. I can’t see him wanting to come back!
You’re right, I’d never criticise him in that way. It’s not his fault he was bought, and he just couldn’t adapt well enough here. But it did seem sometimes he wasn’t trying. Maybe that’s the wrong perception, but it sure looked that way.
Rico – That’s very cynical! I do agree though!
So Keown’s boy was playing for Reading U21 last night….
Arsenal are lining up a swoop for Theo Walcottβs potential replacement after joining the race to land Crystal Palace prospect Wilfried Zaha.
Former Gunners assistant manager Pat Rice β who still works for the club despite retiring in the summer β watched the 19-year-old forward score twice in the Eaglesβ 4-3 win over Burnley on Saturday.
Arsenal have sent scouts to a clutch of Palaceβs games primarily to watch Zaha and are now emerging as serious contenders to land the youngster.
Zaha β rated at Β£12million β could be the latest player to join the Gunners from lower leagues, particularly if the club fail in their attempts to sign Walcott to a new contract.
Arsene Wenger has previously found great success by shopping in the English βlower leaguesβ and appears ready to once again look for new recruits as he sets his sights on highly rated Crystal Palace wide-man Wilfried Zaha, a player who has impressed many over the past 18 months.
The 19 year old has already amassed over 100 appearances for the Eagles and has been in great form this term, scoring four goals in ten matches to help take Dougie Freedmanβs side into the play-off zone.
Wenger may feel that there is a pressing need to land Zaha if he can not get Theo Walcott to put pen to paper on a new deal but even if the England man does sign a new contract that wouldnβt necessarily rule out a move for the Crystal Palace man as clearly he would be one for the future.
The North London club have brought in the likes of the aforementioned Walcott, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain and Aaron Ramsey from the Championship and a move for Zaha would be a sensible one but one wonders if Wenger would fork out Β£12m for the youngster.
You are brave to be watching San Paolo devil, especially with him playing.
I could think of nothing worse… π
Rico – How about if he lined up at Sao Paolo next to Chris Wreh, Chris Kiwomya and kaba Diawara?! That would finish me off.
rocky, so did jack once, according to Brady, he may have changed..
Me cynical, surely not…
Wonder why Oxford didn’t snap him up Lee?
Hey Rico and housers.
Popped in to just say hey and miss you all.
I agree Rico. Like I said earlier (sort of….), I hope he can iron those out because he could become even more of a beast.
Rocky………that cracked me up. Add Luzhny, Stepanovs, Wright(GK), Mendez, mate. I would spend all day watching that lot trying to string two passes together.
But Denilson is not at that level.
Am I the only one a little sceptical of any interest in Zaha? Seems a lot like Gnabry to me and if we’re going to replace Theo with a youngster it’d make sense to replace him with one who’s already here.
Personally, I’m hoping we blow a wad on Reus but I realise that’s pretty unlikely
Hi fellow gunners,
I am a shade later this morning.lol. I had to give a presentation to some big wigs this morning. It didn’t go well but hey JW10 is almost back…
That’s the spirit TSGH – Balls to work, at least things are starting to look peachy at the Ems!!
Hiya S2S. Where the hellhave you been?
I havent seen you for the last two months.
You ok mate???
DG,
Arsenal’s interest in Wilfried Zaha could be a hint to young Theo as is the quote from PWH ” We will not break our pay structure to accomodate Walcott”
Confirmation that the club are prepared to play hardball over contract renewals.
Reus!!!!! now you’re talking Dick. The thing is, Reus plays in the same position as Poldi and I doubt if he will make way for him. Then again they might play together on opposite wings or one of them upfront.
I like Reus. But I do not see him coming to the Ems. Then again…………!!!!!
Nice post TSGH! Opened some decent debate I see.
Before this season started we were all calling for a DM to be bought, M’Villa, Capoue etc etc. myself included, but honestly other than a fleeting look at M’Villa at the euros I have no idea if these guys are any good. That thirst for a new signing took over and I genuinely wanted us to sign one of the fore mentioned players.
In hindsight since the season has started MA has done a tremendous job and I am doubtful either Capoue or M’Villa would be a better option, they would need time to bed in and may end up playing second fiddle to MA anyway. We have some young talent in le coq and frimmy coming through that I feel need to be given a proper crack of the whip before new DM’s are bought. Ricky’s first post sums up what I think of frimmy but I also feel he is young and he can learn to harness such energies, if he can then we have a player who will run all day for us and scare the shit out of the opposition. when a ball is there to be Won and you’ve got a 50/50 against him I can’t think of many that would be that up for going toe to toe with him.
Interesting story devil…. he’s been linked to us before hasn’t he…
Don’t rocky, just the thought of that line up……….
“So why do Arsenal fans prefer Francis Coquelin to Emmanuel Frimpong as a defensive midfielder when he has never played in that position for Arsenal by himself ? Frimpong on the other hand has played in very important games for Arsenal last season when Song was suspended and not conceded a single goal.”
I find it strange that you observe (completely correctly imo) that Vieira was never a real defensive midfielder, yet you consider Frimpong to be one? He isn’t. He’s a box-to-box destroyer; a very strong and aggressive tackler, like Vieira, but not a holding defensive midfielder. People prefer Coquelin as a defensive midfielder because he has better defensive instincts. He’s cleaner and more disciplined, and tends to make safer passes and hold his position more. Not that he’s perfect, he’s just more specialised for the DM position.
This isn’t a criticism of Frimpong – I agree he has a big future, but he’s more Vieira or Diaby, whereas Coquelin is more Gilberto or Arteta. I think they compliment each other very well currently and hopefully will continue to do so in the future.
There’s a chance imo as we do like Germans…
Davi……….the only youngster similiar to Arteta is Yennaris. Coquelin is vastly different.
Hi guys and gals, many thanks for the responds thus far.
As I admitted in the post I use to hold the view that we dont need a DM. I now believe that as a set up we actually need someone like Frimps or as Rico is aware possibly Capoue.
My reason is that when it comes to big matches you need someone like Van Bommel or Gattuso to just put the boot in on a teams playmaker straight away within the first 2 minutes into a match. Ramires and Ivanovic did it with SC19 staright away in the chavs match a couple of weeks ago. Even Oscar was tasked with doing that to MA08.Pepe does it to Messi everytime. Those are just simple examples.
Vidic and Nevil have always done it to one of our players staight after kick-off. What it does is psycologically tell a player that try today.
Last season Frimps did that to the spuds players for wolves and they went missing afterwards.
We need that badly in my opinion in certain key matches
I agree that Yennaris is a closer suit to Arteta. From what I’ve seen of him so far anyway.
This is the death knell for Theo. Whenever PHW comes out spouting such words (he did it with Cesc,RVP) it means we can say bye to Theo.
I doubt if he will remain now.
Arsenal chairman Peter Hill-Wood claims that Theo Walcott has rejected a contract offer from the Gunners β but remains hopeful the England international will stay at The Emirates.
Walcottβs future has become the subject of speculation in recent months, with his current Arsenal deal set to expire at the end of this season.
The 23-year-old recently stated his desire to sign a new contract and stay at Arsenal β but Hill-Wood says the forward has turned down a βvery reasonableβ offer.
Despite the snub, Hill-Wood is still confident Walcott will pen an extension with the north Londoners but warned the player that the club is not prepared to break its wage structure.
βWe have got our general overall wage structure and we are not prepared to break it for anybody,β Hill-Wood told the Daily Star.
βWe have made an offer which he didnβt think was acceptable and that is the end of it. We think it is a very reasonable offer.
βFor the moment his people are still talking to us and we hope it will be resolved. But donβt ask me when, because I havenβt a clue.β
βI hope that he will eventually come round and sign. It will be a pity if he does not, but the whole issue of pay for footballers has got totally out of hand and they donβt get terribly well advised a lot of the time.β
Thing is TSHG, if we did that, we’d get at least a yellow card in the first couple of minutes into the game! It’s different with Utd… They can happily get away with swinging elbows in people’s faces at will!
Theo……….cut the crap of its not about money but about position. It stinks. At the end of the day its about money mate.
We will admire you more if you said its about money.
At least Cashley for all his dimwit brain said its about money.
RR07 and Dev – I also believe Le Coq should be a full back.
Davi- I will disgree with you on Le Coq being a true DM. When has he ever played in that position? Cast your mind back to his recent outings against the greeks and Southampton. He played in the box-to-box role whilst Arteta played the discipline role.
Whilst on loan he played at RB and RM but never at DM.Christian Gourcuff never played him there.The fact is he is a better footballer but he should be playing as a fullback and not as a DM.
rockyrocastle07 at 11:23 am ha ha very true. A word of advice make sure you watch your back after that comment, Don Red Nose will be coming for you with a bottle of Scottish Whiskey. π
Walcott – All fart and no poo in my opinion. Talks a good game but never quite delivers.
Right gang, just got hectic here so have to duck away for a bit. Catch you all soon hopefully!
The thing about Coquelin is that he would make the perfect wingback in a 3-5-2 formation. He can play on the right of midfield in a 4-4-1-1 or as a full back in any team playing with a back 4. But he is never a DM who is the disciplined version like Arteta is or Gilberto was. Only Yennaris can be that. No not even Frimpong. I would gladly have a midfield of Frimpong and Yennaris beside each other, but never one of Frimpong over Yennaris as the PIVOTE. Arteta (at the moment) is the equivalent of Xavi.
Morning lewis…
rocky………….that description of Walcott………all fart and no poo……… π π
Evening all.
Frimpong must prove he can stay calm AND fit before any of us can get carried away.
Potential is a few years away from performance.
Great read Ginger π
On Denilson…add him to the list of god players brought to the club who just weren’t good AT our club.
Dev I totally agree with your comments at 11:34. His performance against Coventry was peachy. His reading of the game is beyond his age peers.
Morning Tsgh…
devil, i suspect that from PHW is an old story re-hashed…
Poor old Owen Coyle has been sacked!!
One of my favourite managers outside our club.
I hope so Rico re PHW on TW14. I liked how he celebrated on saturday. It will be a shame if he left to play for a rival.
Re Owen Coyle his down fall was not accepting our 9 million offer for Cahill. He could have taken that 9 million taken 1 or 2 of our youngster on loan and invested part of that cash. But he went all Mark hughes on us and he has never recovered.
Morning rico, how uncouth of me.lol
Good morning Rico and All.
Good debating read TSGH. I disagree,that my position.
Totally off topic of anything football, but if you are at a loose end at 1:30 (uk time), Check this out!
NUTTER!
http://www.wired.com/playbook/2012/10/red-bull-stratos-jump/
Hi NG
That sucks about coyle, I agree with your sentiments Scott, he had them playing decent kick ball a few years back.
Morning Scott – agree there, the Reading game could show us a lot about Frimps…
Bet Ryo is disappointed re Coyle….
Tsgh – me too re Theo, but I think you knew that π
Hi Ng…
Hi Lewis that is crazy re your video link.
That is HAHO (high altitude-high opening) at the extreme there
Arsenal take Β£5.5m hit after Park fails to make the grade
09 October 2012
Arsenal have written off Β£5.5million in their accounts to cover the wages of Βtransfer flop Park Ju-Young.
The South Korean arrived from Monaco on deadline day in the summer of 2011 but barely featured in Arsene Wengerβs first team.
And despite having been sent on a seasonβs loan to Celta Vigo, the club have put a Β£5.5m βimpairment feeββ in their recently published accounts, writing off the value of one player.
With Denilson and Nicklas Bendtner almost at the end of their contracts, that fee must relate to Park β and means Arsenal believe they cannot recover any of their outlay by selling the striker.
Although the move reduced Arsenalβs profits for the last financial year, the club still made Β£36.6m in the 12 months to May 31 and, crucially, the write off has given them extra leeway in regard to Financial Fair Play.
Arsenal are in no danger of breaching UEFAβs FFP regulations but writing off bad investments when the club are in profit makes it easier for them to cope with any financial hiccups in future, rather than having Parkβs wages show in the accounts for each of the next three years.
Yet it proves Park will go down as one of Wengerβs worst buys, having scored just one goal in six appearances last season.
Despite that deal, Arsenal are still thought to be in an extremely sound financial position and could, if Wenger wanted, make two marquee signings in January.
Financial analysis conducted by the Arsenal Supportersβ Trust shows that despite a wage rise of Β£19m in the previous year, Arsenal have around Β£42.5m free cash.
The club are also in the process of renegotiating shirt and kit sponsorship agreements with Emirates and Nike, both of which expire in the summer of 2014.
With TV revenues set to rise by up to Β£35m per year from next season as the Premier Leagueβs new deal kicks in, it is thought Arsenalβs annual turnover could go past the Β£300m mark. It is currently Β£243m.
And considering the future revenues coming into the club, the AST believe Wenger could sign two players at transfer fees of Β£25m each and give them six-figure contracts if he so wished β providing Arsenal continue to qualify for the Champions League.
Meanwhile, Lukas Podolski has revealed the secret behind his London bus journey: he struggles to find anywhere to park.
The Arsenal striker was pictured last week riding the 268 bus in north London on the way to Pizza Express and he said: βIt was a story because newspapers are crazy, not only in Germany. It is not a problem to ride the bus or a taxi and to leave your car at home. I like to travel with the bus and it is easier because in London it is difficult to park.
βIβm not getting around London on the bus, only in the part of the city where I live. I wanted to take the bus and leave the car at home.β
Lewis, spooky, got the plumber in doing some work today and he was just telling me about that man who is off into space for a jump……..
Just seen this……TERRIBLE!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-19873810
I saw it this morning Lewis. terrible and barbaric. Hope the criminal gets caught.
I know what I’d do with the culprit….
That is awful Lee. Poor lad and his close people!
That news is dreadful, this world sure does have some bastards living within it…
I am off now my Esteemed Fellow Gunners.
Maybe later on today.
Have a good afternoon all.
Ginger,correct me if i’m wrong,but i tought it was Boltons CEO who described our offer as derisory……my question is,was it Coyles call not to sell Cahill?
Have a good day devil..
I thought it was Coyle who said about our offer, certainly heard him in one of his i/v’s talking about it…
How is coquelin vastly different to Arteta? I don’t understand that. Coquelin has played different roles when Arteta has also been in the side, but he has been at his best playing when he’s been able to be the main defensive midfielder of the side, which can’t happen when Arteta is also in the team. Coquelin is faster than Arteta, but I don’t really see any great difference between the two aside from that. The games against Utd (the 8-2 defeat), Spurs and City in the Carling Cup at the start of last season were the best example of Coquelin’s playing style imo, and he was great in all three of those games, even in the horrible defeat at Old Trafford.
I’ve never seen Yennaris play as a defensive midfielder but I could imagine him being quite similar. He’s another quality young player who could easily have started as right back ahead of Jenkinson this season, although Jenks has proven everybody wrong now.
Rico – I don’t understand the whole Park situation. I don’t know what he has done wrong; he’s never looked a poor player, and appears to have all the tools to be real quality. We snatched him from Lille when we got him, so I can’t understand why no one else would be after him?
Seems theres a lot I don’t understand π
davi – Jenks hasn’t proved everyone wrong, some of us believed in him π
Scott- as Rico said Coyle made a big deal out off it too.Especially considering the alleged relationship he had with AW I expected him to be a little cautious about his remarks as they publically understated the bid we put in. In the end Cahill left for more or less than what we bid and in the 4/5 months he was there he contributed zilch.
That same time we also made a bit for Baines but Moyles being a gent as he is did not post it on twitter…
I was surprised with Coyle too Tsgh, thought he was better than that…
Also surprised we ever bothered to help him or Bolton out again with loans….
Davi- Yennaris played as a DM in the first half against Coventry until frimpong came on in the 67th minute.
Actually Song played as the anchor man against the spuds last October in the 2-1 loss he was so poor that day I my thought is that that was one of the performances that made him and AW fall out ( I was told there was a big dispute between them at half time) .I agree that was his best game but everyone in the midfield 3 was poor that day even though Rambo scored.Le Coq played DM against manure for the first half and moved to the RB position when we lost CJ25.
Match report: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/15051273
That match had Mike Dean do is usual anti-arsenal crap when he allowed a blatant Van Der Fart hand ball and offside as a goal.
That is unfortunately the good side about AW.
One person who I want to be sacked too is Mark Hughes. At least after we play them anyway. He was the reason why we didn’t get Mark Schwarzer 2 seasons ago. Al Fayed and the board had agreed on a deal. He came in and said he wanted 1.5m more. Did he receive a call from Red Nose to say that give AW a good goalie?I would not put it past both of them at all. Just saying…
Did you see that Arry is waiting in the wings for when Hughes is sacked?
It won’t be long before you get your wish…. I wouldn’t put anything past them either….
rico- I will see if I can wrong a post on some of these kind of things that goes against AW and us if I can. I have to be careful as I do not want to break someone’s trust in me when they tell me stuff.
If you remember last Saturday the moment Gibbs went off injured I posted that Gibbs was pulling a fast one…
Well lets say I knew through someone he was not happy about going away for 2 weeks as he knows his body better than someone like Diaby. ..
Have I given too much away?
I can write a post I meant to say…
Popping off for a while now, walkies time…
Later all….
That would be fab Tsgh, and that about Gibbs is spooky…
Maybe spooky is not the right word, but good for Gibbs I say, at least he has the sense to do the right thing, and puts his club first….
Unlike Diaby….
TalkShiteGingerHater – I didn;’t see the coventry game, but I’d heard that Yennaris was pushing forward more, and the highlights seemed to agree with that. Also Song very rarely played anchor man for Arsenal, and I don’t think he did against Spurs in that game.
Ok Davi- On the man $hitty game CL who was defensive amongst the midfield 3 then? My suggestion the one who kept Nasty and Silva quiet the whole game until they score luckily on the counter after a poor corner kick. I remember that game well because I told my nephew to the emirates for the first time…
Alright Davi lets agree to disagree.
Wao , I read the papers this morning and it was all rubbish , I am beginning to think they are using templates to write nowadays.
Then reading this was so refreshing.
I will take Frimpong:
1. If Wenger should sell him , he will probably commit suicide (Thats how much he loves Arsenal.)
2.Wenger should use Frimpong like a scarecrow. Use him in must win matches maybe 30minutes to the end. To scare the living day light out of opponentβs midfield.
Imagine Frimpong in the Chelsea game, Hazard would have been on a stretcher and Oscar seeing that would have gone invincible really.
So yes we need a DM but maybe not every game.
Afternoon all,
Not sure we need that ‘proper DM’ TSGH, really like the shape and balance of the midfield right now and what with Wilshire and Frims not too far away it’s evolving all the time, wasn’t a very happy bunny in August it has to be said but so far so good.
Frimpong is still raw but could go on to be a monster for us, was playing really well for Wolves before his injury, if it wasn’t for bad luck he’d have no luck at all, just hope we don’t loan him out again, would rather see him in and around the team, it’s a long season, he’ll get plenty of chances with us.
SDL- that is exactly my point. In certain key games we need to be a little bit different. Red Nose does it with Fletcher and also Park when he use to be with them. There are certain matches at particular times in the season when you can not expect your team to out play certain teams.
Example is 2 seasons ago after playing Barca we went to old manure grounds and they abused us on the wings. Rafeal even scored. red Nose on the other hand rested both Fletcher and Park just to overrun us and intimidate our midfield
Hi Micko
TSGH – I don’t know who played the best in the midfield, but I thought Coquelin was the most central and deepest-lying, which is what I’d consider to be the defensive midfielder (which is why Song and Vieira were rarely, if ever in Vieira’s case, the main defensive midfielder of the side). I do remember comparing Coq to De Jong and thinking that there really wasn’t much difference between the two.
BTW, the game I’m referring to is the one reviewed in the below article:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/961860-carling-cup-review-arsenal-player-ratings-vs-manchester-city
Song wasn’t playing in that game – maybe we’re thinking of different games?
Sorry, I don’t want to be trying to get the last word, but feel the need to respond…
Should have read your post better – you were talking about Song in the Spurs game. My mistake.
Hi Davi no worries.we are all matured here. I am sure Rico will second that….
Nice comments on the bleacher report..
Interesting debate is what we are all here for.. You may be right of course maybe my judgment on Coq is based on seeing him for the reserves 3 years ago when Eastmond and Frimps were the CM and Le Coq played RB..
TSGH, i have to ask , is it that you hate Gingers or you hate ginger ?
Or or , you hate Manure Utd π
SD- my mrs said the same thing. She said people will think you hate red hairs.
First and foremost I have no one. I just despite Adrian durham of talk sports radio.
I may have to change my name if it seems offensive
I hate no one I meant to say… SD
Of course you donβt , you are a gooner , except the Chavs , the Spuds and the Manures which you have licence to hate.
Man shitty is gradually falling into that company for permanently spoiling the essence of the game we love. I bet Walcott is secretly wishing they will buy him and give him 150000 a week.
Ha Ha SD..
This is the man I despise if you do not know him.. Just dont mention his name here.lol
http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/presenter/adrian-durham
I think Coq, Frimpong Yennaris and Eastmond are all quite similar in many ways. Each of them can be top players imo, even Eastmond. The debate is really a small question of which of the 4 are true defensive midfielders like Makele or Gilberto, and which are more the pseudo-defensive midfielders/destroyers like Vieira. Imo Coquelin and certainly Eastmond are more the former, and Frimpong more the latter but really each of them is pretty versatile and could do the job in either role, or in other positions on the pitch. It’s a small thing really because I think we agree that these are quaity young players who could realistically make it at Arsenal.
Afternoon all…
I see that ‘nutter’ who wants to sky dive has had to postpone his jump for a few hours, think i’d just postpone it for ever….
ha ha TSGH , he looks a right minger
A minger with a big mouth-SD
Hi Rico
I think my alias is causing offense. ha ha
TSGH, nothing wrong with your alias mate….! he could and should warrant being called far worse things…!
Hi Tsgh, I think it might be …. π
Hi SD & Wath
See another website ‘stole’ my Jenks and the Finnished article headline, I’m going to sue π
W.A.T.H I thought so but…
ok lady its is now Tsgh
Seriously Rico. You may have a case there…
Ha ha, I’m not so sure Tsgh… I take it you meant the headline…
I know, a bit of fun lady…
It just shows you are popular..
well i have to go now , not looking forward to 2 weeks of rubbish international break and the media feeding on what Ashley Cole says next.
(puke)
You’ll get me blushing…
SD – the latest is he will be selected for Friday’s game after a grovelling apology to the FA. What a joke…..
See you soon SD, go steady..
Latest…
Cheers SD, hope your well mate, Hightlight the GH in your new moniker TsGH π
Afternoon House Lady…. You ok..?
See you later Tsgh…
All good thanks Wath, you??
Hi again,
The man done it again. He says the Arsenal board are inept to let Mannone’s contract run down even though they reckoned he was rubbish in the first place…
These are the same guys who call every Arsenal player who does not start a match deadwood.lol
Diaby
Hi Tsgh – I take it your are referring to your namesake?
Do any of us really believe that Mannone is good enough right now?
I know I don’t…
Evening Gooners
Evening Rico,
Morning Scott (when you arrive)
Evening TSGH, I have to say, that today’s post was a mighty fine effort on your behalf.
A very interesting read indeed.
Personally I really rate Frimpong.
But I also rate Coquelin, I think they both offer differdnt things but can achive the same job.
With Yennaris and Aneke coming thru, we are, as a club, well stocked in midfield.
As far as Wilfred Zaha is concerned….?!
Β£12 million???? Yeah, right…
Serge Gnabry as someone mentioned, will be better than him, imho.
We have fantastic young players at the club, so unless new signings are of the Cazorla, Podolski, Arteta class, then I don’t see the point in bringing them in…
Rico, did I have a comment go into spam?
Evening Ak, just as I go and cook dinner, back shortly. Hope all is well…
Righto, gotta do a bit.
Seems that I lost a comment….
Anyway, to repeat, great post TSGH
Offski now…
Two comments in spam?
Gone now
Rico- definitely my name sake. lol
His agent is manipulating the press to say he is wanted by Napoli. Flapper is also out of contract soon too. I bet LLoris is kicking himself he might have been with us next year. but i know you dont rate him.lol
ur 2 comments are out of prison AK… π Drive careful out there mate..! Gotze will be signed in the next 12/18months AK that’s a proper player plus Akpom signed today as well… All looking pretty good if we don’t lose Arteta or Santi for any length of time this season…!
Thanks Ak
Good Evening my Esteemed Fellow Gunners.
What has happened while I have been away????
W.A.T.H………loooooooooooooooong time no chat mate. How are you???
I’m good Dev, hope you and the family are all well mate, seen all your comments but never been around to come say hi when you been here…!
Nothing of yours in spam AK…
I’d rather lloris than Mannone or Flappy though tsgh….
Ah, they were in spam – don’t know why π
Thanks Wath…
we are ok mate. all in fine health.
do you think Theo will sign the dotted line????
imo he will go. AW is playing hardball because he knows that at AFC there are better prospects than him and is refusing to be held to ransom. and he knows that a younger player does not have commercial rights and they can use them any time they want without AFC forking out money as part of the deal. Unless Theo goes to the chavs/manure I do not think he will flourish better then he is with us. at shitty or at the dippers he will get limited game time and honestly at shitty I doubt they will take away any of their strikers to give him a place so he might not get enough playtime or get shafted to the wings.
he might go to the dippers, but then again he will be surrounded by crap players so he will not fare any better.
imo as I said…..he will be gone by the end of this season. I will be very surprised if he signs.
at the end of the day its all about money.
Evening devil – those comments from PHW are ancient I suspect…
Lloris would have provided good competition with Martinez as 3rd choice. Especially since his wife and Sagna’s wife are very close. Talking of players wifes that may play a rule in keeping Sagna here for a while. On the other hand that was what we thought of ‘you know who’s’ wife.
Dev- I am giving up on him until he signs. Big IF by the way. Personally I think he’s gone but Rico and others think otherwise…. but I am living in instead of expectation…
Cesar of QPR should have been the choice. On a free. Brazil international keeper and champions league winner.
Since when to men listen to their wife Tsgh π
Surely Lloris would have been a good 2nd keeper?
Good point. will they have allowed him to move on a free to us though..
Same as AA23 could have gone free to Russia but not to any other club in western europe.
he was given a free before he signed for QPR.
But he’d expect to be number 1 devil….
Oh really. my bad.. I am surprised no one else went in for him including the spuds instead of paying 12m for Lloris
And rightly so…….for he is way better than the ones we have.
dp mpt judge him on what he does for QPR. he has a crap manager and remember he has traore as part of his defence. that says it all.
the spuds already had earmarked lloris before he became available.
Wonder why AW doesn’t focus on a keeper, and the defence sometimes, his history of defensive signings is not the best…
Great keepers can win a side ten points a season…
night gals and guys
And Cesar would have done so Rico. but since AW has bought Chezzer and Mannone from the youth set up he is loath to bring in someone who will hinder their development. They will become great keepers, both of them, and if Flappy arranges the grey matter between his ears he will do so too. But for them to be great we may have to wait a few more years.
They are already on their way to the top. But still have a lot to do.
good night TSGH……….fine post so you deserve all the beauty sleep you can get.
W.A.T.H how do you know gotze is going to signed in the next 12-18 months. Source?
Sorry Dev dinner called, cheers TsGH,
I really think Theo wants to stay Dev BUT and here’s the but, he has advisors telling him that 75k a week is not that great when he’s an England regular and thats bottom end of what the England players are earning, yes they maybe right but he’s also not put in displays to warrant more than 75k a week England interantional or not so for me it’s all down to does he wanna stay earn good money and grow with the team or does his band of backroom people push him to go for 100k a week somewhere else…? They will want him to move their share of the pie will be bigger obviously so we”l see how easily he is convinced and does he has a mind of his own or is he led by dosh…!?!?!
Just my opinion vida re Gotze….!!! Things staff have said and the fact he was given the VIP tour last year when we played Dortmund…! IF we gonna buy a top top player my guess it will be him !!
Night Tsgh, have a good one…
Hi Wath and thanks.
Sign Gotze?!!!
If we aign him, then i’ll cream my pants… π
Lata
Are you Stanley in disguise tonight AK π
Stan has trademark on creaming pants AK π
I’m off for the day guys, catch up tomorrow…
Have a good evening all…
Night
Former-Arsenal goalkeeper Alex Manninger could be set for a return to the Premier League with Everton.
The Austria international is currently a free agent after he was released by Serie ‘A’ champions Juventus, and reports in Italy on calciomercato.com suggest a return to England is on the cards.
The 35-year-old spent five successful years at Arsenal, winning one Premier League and an FA Cup.
gd nite all
cu tomorrow
Following from Wath’s earlier comments on Gotze, Germany certainly seems the place to look for technically proficient & disciplined players, that are also winners.
The experience of Poldi, BFG and our 3 German youngsters, could give us an advantage in attracting German talent.
Besides Gotze, we’ve also seen Thomas Muller & Reus linked to Arsenal in recent months.
That suggests that Wenger is targeting the German market.
AK,at least with the Germans,you know they will not be intimidated physically,nor kicked out of a game.
A good blend of nationalities can be lethal in a squad.
Morning all…
The more Germans the merrier I say…..
Morning Rico, and all….I concur more Germans the better but if we can find more Spanish players like the two we’ve already got, that’ll do too…..
As i say,a nice blend of nationalities is great.
They each seem to bring a different set of assets to the table.
Morning all
another fine day in sunny South East..
Morning Lee, Germans, mature Spanish players and a few English gooners, nice mix eh π
breaking news Mick McCarthy is rumoured to be in line to replace Coyle at Bolton..
Is that not proverbial frying pan to fire? π
Morning Scott, Tsgh…
Grey and cloudy here ….
Bolton fans reckon MM is the right man, goodness knows why.. Arry would be better for them… π Or Mark Hughes if they can wait a week or two…
re Germans you need bit of Jens Lehmann in every team
pure classic moment by the mad mad german and legend
No please Rico, are you having a laugh I do not want ‘Arry Brown Envelope near our Ryo. π
On a serious note why any chairman will want him I have no idea
How are we all today??
Spooky you post Mad jens, i was trying to think who the current German no1 keeper is, we should sign him π
Ryo – I wonder if I am the only one who thinks Ryo will be another Vela?
That Benny Hill tune does Jens justice..
Fab thanks Scott, you??
Rico- same wavelength again. That is exactly what I was thinking when I said no ‘Arry. Ryo in opinion is going to be a write-off unfortunately,if you factor in the MM takeover effect. He looks like one of those players who would not be able to play 90 mins consistently. At least not any time soon
Maybe he would have been better off staying and playing for the under 21’s/reserves Tsgh – and don’t often think that but he could have been involved in Euro games, played alongside players who are stepping up in their game, playing the Arsenal way and training with guys like Jack, Sagna, Frimps etc…
New Post up by the way….