It was all going to start in December he said….
We’d make our home advantage count he said…..
Well neither happened yesterday did it?
We were outplayed by a style of football we once watched OUR club play and well beaten by two goals from a bargain £2 million Spanish signing, the type of player which Wenger would have once been envied to have spotted and signed.
Just three victories in ten home fixtures which we all know is nearer to relegation performance than it is a side looking to challenge for silverware.
It’s simply not good enough!
After the game, Arsene Wenger said:
We gave it away by not being creative, it’s a concern because we didn’t create a lot, we ran against a wall, our passing was not sharp and was not quick enough. We looked jaded.
It’s a big blow because we wanted to start December well. Games come quickly and we have to find the quality of our game. The way we played today is not how we want to play football.
Speaking about the fans booing the team and him off:
Fans have an influence on us, but it is down to the team to get the fans behind them, the way we play has to create that. I can understand that [the boos] when we lose games the way we lost that.
Yesterday should have been an open, entertaining game with plenty of goals for both sides with the meanest defence coming out winners.
Well, what should have been never was. While one side entertained, the other, us, were poor. Yet again!.
Swansea started the game as if they were in front of their home fans, they were slick, their passing was crisp and we couldn’t do anything about it. Angel Rangel forced Szczesny into a double save just after the fifteen minute mark and soon followed that with another chance after Walcott was easily dispossessed just outside of the area. Thankfully, that chance went begging!
Cazorla and Podolski both had chances as the half carried on but Swansea always looked the better side and the more likely to open the scoring. Thomas Vermaelen made a vital tackle to stop Dyer from breaking the deadlock and soon after, Williams saw his free kick brush the top of the net.
Half time came and went and I wondered if Wenger or Bould could find some magical words to wake us up.
We started the second half a little better and soon in, Cazorla drew a save from Tremmel. But it wasn’t long before Rangel again nearly opened the scoring. He dodged his way past three players and then unleashed his shot which Szczesny saved well.
Olivier Giroud, who had by now replaced Gervinho appeared to be fouled by a Swansea defender but Mark Clattenburg waved any appeals away.
Ashley Williams nearly grabbed a goal for Swansea near the end, Vermaelen nearly grabbed a goal for us near the end too, but he didn’t.
However, Spanish signing Michu was given two chances right at the end of the game….
He took both.
Wenger huffed and puffed, zipped up his sleeping bag, had a quick shake of a few hands and then stomped off down the tunnel….
There is little point in blaming individuals for yesterdays result, the team were poor full stop. The best player on the pitch was Szczesny and he was beaten twice but through no fault of his own.
The afternoon began with the BSM march which attracted many fans who wanted to voice their own views about what is going on at OUR club. Most of criticism was directed at Ivan Gazidis and Stan Kroenke although one fan said:
I’ve been an Arsenal fan for 20 years and I do have a gripe with Wenger. It’s a joke that he is paid £7.5 million and hasn’t won anything for years.
Wenger said he is concerned about how we are playing but not about where we are right now in the league:
Of course. But I’m not as worried about the places. We need to get the quality of our game back.
Not at all. You make your assessment at the end of the season. I know we’ve got unrest everywhere. It’s a good opportunity to stick together and show we’re a strong club.
He also went on to suggest that he should be judged at the end of the season which we have heard before..
He said he’d spend money in January too when asked if he needed new players:
It’s difficult to comment straight after a defeat like that but I can’t say No. I believe the board are there for us to spend the money if we can find the players.
We have heard that before too, but even if he does spend money in January, will he sign who we NEED and play them where they should be?
Frank Lampard is linked to us in the Sunday Mirror, is he the kind of player we need?? I think not!
Best I stop writing now, too much and I’ll start feeling jaded……!!!
Mourinho’s on the verge of quitting Madrid or being sacked….
Just saying 😉
Morning all….
Morning Rico. Yesterday was appalling but annoyingly predictable. Are new players really the answer? A new board, owner, culture and manager I can see, but a mid thirties injury-prone Frank Lampard?
I am starting my evening with my tail between my legs,through nobodies fault but mine.
I flew off the handle this morning (my time) because i simply misunderstood a post,so offer my apologies to those involved.
Good post Rico….not sure how you found the strength or motivation!!
Thanks also Rico….you know why!!
Morning Adam,
I think a DM, defender and striker would make a difference to the squad strength but no, it won’t change the current boardroom culture.
But, it might perk things up on the pitch similar to what Arshavin did when he arrived.
Imho, the main reason things are going wrong on the pitch is down to players being over played, and they are being over played because Wenger and the board have failed to address the squads needs.
We are not the only club in the CL, but we seem to be the only club with a manager who moans about it each time we lose a PL game…
The club want the money from the competition, but don’t want to fund the squad to make sure we don’t suffer from being in it…
Rico. Where did you see the Mourinho news?
Except Arteta everyone in the team can pass it frontwards i guess. just he does not pass to anyone than walcott and gervinho.. his vision is lost his thinking is lost he’s become nothing but protracted.. And there, Wenger the manager who led the team to victory without getting beating do you seriously think that it was his tactics I say BULLSHIT.! with players like Henry Bergkamp Pires Ljunberg Viera Silva Kolo and Sol do you really think they lose something ?? now look at the team.! The atrocious thing is our stupid board they wan’t nothing but profits not ready to lose even a single euro I say Get the hell out of our board members and we will surely be the invincibles we once were,!!
Morning all,
I’ve had to ask the Mrs to type this comment for me, I’ve made brekkie and a few cups of tea and am now totally jaded and will have to put my feet up for the rest of the day…!
PHW in hospital from heart-attack.
Peter Hill-Wood taken ill
Everyone at Arsenal Football Club sends their support and best wishes to Chairman Peter Hill-Wood who is recovering after suffering a heart attack, following a bout of pneumonia.
Peter was taken ill at home on Friday and is currently being treated in hospital. He is making a good recovery.
The Club wishes Peter a full and speedy return to health and our thoughts are with him and his family at this time.
Thanks Scott, it was an effort – I’m exhausted after writing it though….
Adam – It’s in this mornings newspapers…
You may be right Rico but I think the problems run a lot deeper. The fact that Wenger proudly announces that he doesn’t do tactics and that he never studies the strengths of the opposition must be music to the ears of other managers. They do study those things and that makes us easy to play against. And easier to beat. We have been on this path for ages but have been bailed out by all the players we have now sold. It has been said before that selling your best players is a bad thing. But when you replace them with blokes like Gervinho you are going to suffer. Wenger has been here many times before but won’t change. He is a decent man and was a great manager but the game has passed him by now and I fear for his health. The club has changed, perhaps out of necessity, who knows? Football has changed too and the genius of someone like Ferguson is that moves with it. Even with a comparatively poor team he keeps winning. Van Persie knows this. That’s why he left. I believe we have some good players but that some of them are not equipped to play either in the PL or for Arsenal. I also believe that Wenger had his time and should have moved on a while ago but that his shadow and influence over the club is so powerful that it is unlikely, but not impossible, for him to be sacked.
Emmanuel – I think it’s high time the American sold up to AU..
😆 Wath, take it steady…
Morning all,
An excellent and positive post by the way Rico.
Just to add to your 10:10 comment. I think AW underestimated how much psychological damage the sales last summer had on the squad. Maybe if our buys had happened post the sales things may possibly be different now.
Very good comment Adam…
I can’t disagree with any part of it…..
Thanks Tsgh…
Not sure it’s the timing of the sales, more like the ‘who we sold’…
Good morning all,
I recorded Sky’s Football First highlights show but haven’t yet watched it. From the comments and press reports I’m not sure I want to.
I suspect that once again the team played with one and a half eyes on Tuesday’s Champions League game, against Olympiacos, and the players “saved” themselves for that game. I doubt that Wenger actually encouraged that view but he certainly didn’t appear to do much to dispel it.
A to the Lampard rumour, why does anyone take such tripe seriously, some numpty of a journalist, and I use the term “journalist” in the loosest possible way, writes patent nonsense in a Sunday tabloid and fans take it as gospel.
1) Wenger would never sign a player of that age.
2) Lampard would get a much higher income if he joined his mate Drogba in China.
It will take more than a couple of January signings to alter the perception that our only realistic chance of success this season is the two cup competitions.
Thanks ALL on your condolence messages over the death of my brother. I appreciate & pray on God blessings upon you all. Thanks.
Got to nip out with Fido before the rain/snow comes…
Back in a bit…
JW
You have to watch it to believe just how bad we were…
….
JW,watch the first 15 minutes of the second half.
Leave the rest alone.
Adam,
When you see a team like Swansea come to our place and basically lay us off the park it says it all….! They played the better football they looked like they wanted it more they looked dangerous in possession and when they didn’t have the ball they hounded us and worked hard to shut us down and get the ball back. They made far better chances and looked very comfy with the ball. Reminded me of us a few years ago. They got the ball and looked dangerous we got the ball and looked…………. pedestrian and clueless.
Has Wenger lost the dressing room..? Has he lost the ability to motivate…? As said he doesn’t do tactics well surely he can see as we all can that “his” team isn’t good enough and the players that “he” has bought are not good enough.
One point from yesterday Scott, I agree no one helped Jenks for the 2nd goal and the only one running back in an attempt to cover was Rosicky but at a 2 yr old your taught to play the way you face… When he was put under pressure all Jenks had to do was play it all the way back to Chez and then turn and moan at his team mates for lack of options and an easy lay off. He contrived to got himself into trouble and then was naive…! He’ll learn BUT a very basic mistake to make when Chez was open for an easy ball back…! That isn’t blaming him for the loss either mate as we should in effect of been 2 down at half time in my opinion.
Just seen your post from yesterday Big Santy, condolences to you and your family mate, may your brother rest in peace and you have all our thoughts at this very sad time.
You know what? It’s a beautiful cold, sunny morning here in Norfolk, I’m not going to spoil it by watching the recording of the game nor by reading any more moans about the board, the manager and the players. I’m going out to enjoy the day.
I would like to express my condolences to BigSanty and my best wishes for a quick recovery to Peter Hill-Wood.
Goodmorning all
Good post rico
I am so JADED after yesterday’s JADED performance
Adam at 10:23 am I would have to disagree there partially.
Most recently didn’t OG12 say the team had prepared against Schalke by watching videos of the team?
I think we are in a bad way so we can all voice our dissatisfaction, however, AW was known to be adaptable when required. Typical example is the 2005 FA final where RedNose accused us of playing 10 men behind the ball.What he says now is that he would not change the teams playing style for any opposition which I think is wrong by the way but most top teams built to attack do not do that.
That comment was made in response to being asked if he would man mark Messi against Barca.
The issue we have with this team is that no one expected the team to be jaded at this stage of the season. However, what most ex-pros say is that when you are winning find the extra strength, whilst when things are not going well every thing seems laboured.
Comparing RedNose to AW is quite unkind that Fergie has not had to build 5 teams in 7 years. He has only built 2 during that same period with the core of the team maintained to provide the guidance.
In August most thought £24M for VP was good business however, did we have to sell him? That is where the board are clueless and need to be hung imo.
Big Santy. I never knew. I would like to add my sincere condolences to you and your family. HH is, in many ways, a fairly tight community and we all feel deeply for you at this difficult time. May he rest in peace.
Morning all,
A crafty post Rico, i know what you were thinking and you have held yourself back well.
We all know that that performance yesterday was not the type of performance we want to see. We know we have major problems and Wenger has just noticed that as well. I have calmed down a bit from yesterday and would like to apologise to Scott from Oz after watching some of the saves over again by Czez i have to agree that the score could and should have been a lot more but i stand by what i said he still let 2 in 🙂 i’m sure Scott wont hold that against me. I am not quite sure what Wenger can do as so many things look wrong its not just the players or the tactics its also Wenger himself,Deep down he probably knows that the board will go along with everything he decides to do as in all fairness what do they know about football, as long as the money rolls in they are happy, But Wenger must realise that he has scraped through before when Supporters were not happy and he also realises that their patience with him has worn very thin indeed. He knows he needs an answer or the pressure will only build. All i can say is he is very lucky he is as close to the transfer window as he is and he better use it well.
Agreed Wath,and i wasn’t trying to lay lame elsewhere.
It was very disappointing though that he had no support at all.
Even in the case of an error,which did eventuate.
That few seconds showed me that some guys just were not putting in.
Typical of most Arsenal fans to underestimate opposition. Didn’t Swansea outplay us last season too? Our first win last season came from an error by their keeper to gift AA23 an open goal.
Brendan Rogers that day accused Frimpong of kicking his midfielders especially Allen. That is the type of player we are missing in midfield.
Thanks W.A.T.H & JW for your condolences, The pain of losing one younger brother is seriously painful.
Steve,honestly,i was not upset at all with that comment,so no apology is necessary.
I guess PHW was JADED by the performance. Wishing him quick recovery
https://twitter.com/ESPNFC/status/275181086240301056
Ginge….i was thinking about Frimpong earlier.
Has anyone got an update on how he is playing?
Sir Steve I totally agree that AW himself is wrong.For the first time in AW career he is failing to play a better youngster ahead of a poorly performing experienced pro.
I would even go as far to say AW has lost confidence in what he is doing. 3 years ago the winning stats between AW and RedNose was 62% to Fergie, 60% to AW. This week it has dropped to 57% whilst Fergie is at 64%. This year (from Jan to now) has been bad period. We have won less than 29% of our matches all year. That is a relegation form I am afraid.
Scott, Chjris Powell this week stated Dench has transformed their midfield. He played 67 minutes in his first match and 70 minutes in their second match. However, Powell felt he needed a rest after playing 2 games in 5 days so he did not feature at Millwall yesterday
TSGH. It is one thing to watch videos of the opposition and another to change tactically to counter their strengths. Witness our recent displays. As for comments regarding Ferguson and Wenger. I don’t get that at all. Forget how many teams they have had to build. Top players leaving are a very real consequence of Wenger’s influence and lack of success, plus financial considerations too.Teams are are an ongoing developing thing. If you don’t do it for Ferguson, you are out, regardless how much you cost. There are plenty of examples of this. If you don’t do it for Wenger he just plays you anyway until your value is so low that you leave for zero. He’s doing it with Gervinho at the moment and I think there are others in this team who could go the same way. A team is a reflection of a manager’s personality. There is a culture of under achievement creeping in at our club and this is allied to a lowering of expectations from the fans. Who could seriously argue that we don’t need a change? Professional sport is a tough results-driven business. That’s why they get the big bucks.
No doubt Wenger is questioning himself of late.
It is never a good position to be in.
Winning is a habit,as is losing.
Thanks Adam on your sincere condolence, indeed it has been a terrible time for the family.
Thanks Ginge…..great to hear.
Let us hope he gets back to full fitness and has no more injury problems.
The lack of options for Jenks was a joke Scott, not a single player made themselves available for a little lay off…! It fits in with watching the back for get the ball look up and “NOTHING” where is the movement and the players making spaces and runs for passes, Jack got the ball loads of times looked up and also nothing on… he then goes sideways or backwards. It’s all down to this one up front crap in my opinion. Also how was it that Britton an ex Arsenal schoolboy ran the midfield, there is nothing of him yet he covered every blade of grass, he won tackles he put himself about and he made space and passes…! He didn’t look tire or jaded and nor do other sides and wenger needs to stop that bollox. Another comment you made Scott, maybe just maybe it’s time for Wenger to indeed slag the players off in public and do something different…! Maybe the wake up call they need ? It can’t hurt what he’s saying and doing now isn’t helping or working.
Movement,on and off the ball,or a lack of it,kills us.
You watch….you can see in the first two minutes if the boys are up for the game.
J W that’s two of us in Norfolk . Do you get to games ? Get Rico to give you my E-Mail if you need tickets , I can’t promise every week but I have a friend ( ST )in Oslo that can’t make every game.
As for Wenger’s tiredness bleating , if you give players an excuse they will exploit it.
A well timed rocket can do wonders,Wath…agreed on that.
Oh and as for Jenks and their second if you can’t do anything else , put it out for a throw in.
The simple easy ball was back to Chez Potter…..! Then turn around and ask where were his team mates for the pass..? Easy in hindsight and he showed lack of experience but he’ll learn.
Also agreed Potter, the excuses that wenger makes up are an excuse for the players to always fall back on. As AK said yesterday you don’t see or hear Fergie bleating on !! Wenger needs to stop that tell us the players need to take responsibility and that he will not accept such poor performances. A very public rollicking will make it very very clear he is not happy with the team. Something need to change and his attitude as well along with the formation and the square pegs round hole problems..!
May I also add my condolencies Big S sorry to hear that mate.
My thoughts on Jenks is he shouldn’t be going backwards, if your in the shit kick it out and re group
He didn’t need to kick it out SP pass back to Chez and build again… If there was no pass forwards and no options then play it to who was open if you’ve got yourself closed down and the pass back to the keeper was easy. It’s over now, am sure he’ll learn from it and a harsh lesson it was.
Agreed Potter and Steve….he stuffed up.
The lack of effort,for different reasons,disappointed me more though.
We need a beast in CDM role in January. There are loads of them in france. AW banking on the fitness of ‘Abou Dhabi’ was insane. Most of us were clamouring for DM before the transfer window closed but Signor Wenger failed to pay heed to that. Arteta is gradually become denilsoque-like. There were occasions in that match and subsequent matches which he could have initiated an attack but instead passes the ball backward to TV or Mert.
Another problem we ve being having is Pressing the ball. We did that for only 15mins of the 2nd half and faded away. Why can’t we do it for 90mins. What are the responsibility of the fitness coach? I believe it’s no different to our shabby medical team
AW offering Jaded excuses for our failure when results doesn’t go our way is another issue. Phil neville on MOTD said ‘When your manager comes out and say you are tired(Jaded). I think your player reads the papers and watch the TV and they start believing in that’. We are not the only team that plays in the champions league and using excuses that the players are JADED is a no brainer. The totts play Europa league matches on thursday but you don’t hear the coach coming out to offer excuses of the players being tired.
Players like Poldi shouldnt be starting. We suffered from his and Gervinho’s lack of movement in the final 3rd. Never knew both were in the match until they were replaced. Ox has regressed badly. Theo had a 19yr old rockie marking him out of the game. Gervinho has always being Gervinho. Cazorla needs to be played on the wings(left or right wing) The CAM role is a big shoe for him to fill. He has being found out by the opposing teams. Brilliant in his first few matches cause he was unknown. He should gradually be introduced into the CAM role. Our crosses into the 18yard box needs to improved aka gibbs/jenks.
We are not creating chances because we lack movement in the final 3rd. That match was painful to watch yesterday b/s you could see the old swaggering arsenal in swansea
Apart from that,i thought he was very good.
Apart from that lol!!
First off all manure are in a completely different league to us in terms of revenue etc. When manure were reportedly valued at £1B we were worth in the regions of £250M. Up until 2 to 3 years manure had revenue 5 times greater than ours.
So man u have the resources to have debt in the region of half a billion dollars without the IRS closing them down and still pay players £200k a week.
What is the point in paying a player off if you can not afford to replace him with a better player. If for example we pay Squid £3m to leave a year before his contract you will need at least another £12M to replace him with a better player on paper. We might as well stay around and make up the numbers.
On player sales, buying or selling players involves 3 parties. Did we not try to sell AA and shitemak and Squid for less than 1 million euros last summer? Most teams outside the 4 major leagues are not signing players on contracts longer than 3 years now because of the burden of salary. In fact in squids case he was free to go if he could find a club but most teams will only over a player aged 30 a two year contract, whilst most players want 4 years.
And those insulting AW, note we were not even amongst the top 30 teams in Europe before AW arrived. And don’t get me started on those saying GG is a better manager than AW. What has he done since he left us and the spuds…
I don’t like to have a go at players but when the goal was scored Did Rosiski slow right down so he didn’t need to challenge, i felt he should have thrown himself in
I thought we were great when we left the pitch Scott a very orderly fashion…!
You know Wenger wasn’t gonna replace Diaby Emma it’s that stubborn streak and as we’ve all said time and time again it wasnt a gamble it was insane..! If we had bought then Diaby play one game in three and maybe stays fit for most of the season..? we’ll never know as it’s never gonna happen.
Emma your comments on Arteta and Cazorla is exactly what I was making even when we were winning matches months ago. People asked me why I complained about the ‘duopoly’ (kevs word) and you have summed it up perfectly because when either Arteta or SC19 can’t pass to each other first in midfield they pass backwards.
Steve,his actions were strange to say the least.
Still,he was the only player within a hundred yards.
Ginge,is that due to a lack of movement or urgency from our other guys,or just confidence in each other only??
I thought it might have been me Scott glad you noticed it as well
On the DM issue did we not have a bid for Cheikhou Kouyaté accepted in August but the player chose to play for Anderlecht in the CL qualifier instead. Also was a bid not made for Mbiwa but he wanted to go to AC instead.
And some may ask what about M’Villa well we all know he was demoted to the u-21 level before he was suspended because he was shite. Do you honestly think the cockerels would have suspended him from the national team if he was that good in the first place?
Can you imagine JW or Cahill being suspended from the national team for that long?
I think maybe he realised SP he wasn’t close enough to actually get to Michu so sort of gave up…!
Steve,it may have been he wanted to (a) not risk a penalty and (b) made the decision to stay inside so as to cut off the shot across Szczesny.
Maybe i am being kind,but yes,it was odd.
CJ25 has completed less than 10 dribbles this season. in this set up that is very poor. He needs to work on that part of his game asap or he has to be moved to CB as Rico has suggested.
He was close enough Wath,he just seemed to prop and hold his spot.
Ginge,my thinking on Jenks is he has really put the attacking side of his game on hold this season.
on the duopoly it is a Spanish thing. Alonso and Garcia of liverpool had the same issue during 2004 to 2007 when they played together. The front 3 are very static and apart from OG12 no one offers anything at all that is why I will always say Theo is not a centre forward.
OG12 will have to learn but he has been playing in a league where most teams play with a deep line so he is not used to that VP type of movement where you run in the question mark line to receive a ball to go beyond a tight defence.
Scott spot on. On CJ25 compared to last season
I am off guys.
Have a great day.
Morning all…. I don’t even think if we get new players in January it’ll turn the season around. The changes need to come from above, AW is being out thought far too often by other managers. The game has changed BUT Wenger hasn’t changed with it, he is undoing his legacy and needs to go imho.
A wage bill of £140m and that’s how they play, sorry but we need to bin in excess of ten players and buy some proper fucking players, not kids or unproven players! Sad times being an Arsenal supporter at the moment, I’m just so glad I loaned out my season ticket. Most expensive place on the planet to get served up shit football…..
Am very angry still!
Stevep – Rosicky prevented michu from cutting back in. It was now left for chez to make sure that his right hand corner was covered unfortunately it wasn’t. Jenks made an error of judgement, since there was no option to pass to Cazorla should have pass the ball to chez. Hope he learns from that.
Wenger quote yesterday:
I believe the support from the board is there to spend the money if we find the players.’
We found Mata
We found Hazard
We found Cahill
We found Moralis
We found M’vila
We found Reina
We found Vertonghen
We found Gotze
We found Yanga-Mbiwa
We found Schwarzer
I like wenger always have……been defending him for years…
but the feeling all around the ground now is…his talking Bull-s–t
Wenger is ..and we all know a control-freak
I know bouldy would have told Jenks..if in dought kick it out
but thats not the wenger way.
from 9 ylds to the 1st team the keepers are told to pass it out.
Cheers Scott,
Morning Lee……… Swansea’s wage bill is like 20bar….! It shows what effort and desire can do when it’s applied properly.
I’d seriously look at Laudrup as a new manager after watching how he’s got them playing..! He’s now done it at a few clubs so def a manager on the up to watch for and lets be honest the bloke was superb as a player as well.
Big Santy…. I didn’t know mate. So sorry for you and all your family.
Take care Gooner, and God Bless to you and yours….
tsGH – OG12 has good movement but got no pace. That’s what is missing. If he had pace, he could have gotten to the ball before chico toe poked it and that would have being a penalty and a sending off.
It was outside the box Emma but it would of been a red card that’s for sure then again they would of sat back and we’d of still not made any decisive moves to make opportunities to score..!
VP has no pace either but he starts his runs and stays on the shoulder of the last defender whilst OG12 likes to play in front of his marker. Maybe as you have said to compensate for his lack of pace
WATH – yep, sending off 😉
How you diddling WATH?
Any news on PHW?
Fred the same AW and Bould who together have played 2 times more long balls already this season than the whole of last season.
The issue is that the fans asked for a better defensive team and in order to achieve that with the type of players we have we had to change our dynamic movement. We have to either change manager or go back to square one. And those saying AW is crazy for saying its easier to defend than score goals there is your answer. We are now like Everton. The least goal attempt against but not creating chances at all.
I seriously think the mindset of the squad is all wrong, if the gaffer considers top four as a trophy what message does that send out! Total bollocks imho…..
TS, I think Everton are better than us actually come to think of it there’s loads of teams better than us right now!! Who we losing to next?
We need 2 defensive midfielders not just one. People in Wanyama’s mould. The benefits will be in 2 fold: A. With those 2 beasts of play breakers, we would not need to bother much with the defense. B,arteta wilshere and Carzola will concentrate on the creativity that we so much need now. Plus the so badly needed debth.
Why on earth can Jenkinson not make a single pass forward? The difference between him and Sagna is like night and day. He contributes majorly to our flat attack. The reason Nathan Dyer anticipated his backward pass and gave him a chase. He is so predictable with his belaboured backward passes.
Wish I can manage to remove my mind from anything Arsenal, at least for a week.
Still TH14 will be riding in on his charger to save the day! You couldn’t make it up, could you?
Nice one Lee, I’d forgotten about Tel riding in to save the day…? Is he bringing the cavalry..?
The mindset comes from the Board Lee, it’s ok to just compete why is winning a priority when 4th is great and the manager is not held accountable cos he also makes a great profit… win – win…!
Good morning HH..
WATH, until that mindset changes we are fucked as football team! Actually if the results continue as they are the CL wedge will be up the Swanny…..mid table mediocrity, very fitting our current league position!
Get well soon PHW, those who have clean hands and a pure heart will see god. I wish u a speedy recovery..
Thanks Steve Palmer & Allezkev for the condolence messages. The family is coping well with the loss.
Sending you my prayers and condolences, BigSanty. May God mellow your sorrows and help you find comfort in your time of loss.
Lee, The minute you have a board praising a manager and team for coming 3rd or 4th the total ambition of the club is set in stone. The players feel no pressure to perform with the emphasis on winning trophies… The winning mentality is replaced with well it’s ok if we lose long as we finish in CL positions. There is no pressure on the manager to get results as it’s also fine and a snow ball effect. That mentality stinks at our club and starts and finishes in the boardroom. Until we have people in charge who show ambition and are pro-active to bring success to the club and want the club to be the best again am afraid your right mate its mediocrity and Harrods prices for lidls football.
These days, I’m honestly more surprised when we win thn we draw/lose. Ours is such a sad state of affairs. Our fall from grace so ignominious, but we can’t say we didn’t see it coming.
Hello, all!
We haven’t so good and quality players. it’s a ilusion.
We haven’t a good and a strong team. specially, we haven’t a strong team.
We have an unbalanced team and a short squad. We have a set of players in this time sof the season without minutes or just a few minutes in the big competiitions.
Our wages are very high. Our team isn’t in a good shape phisically.
Our team is lack in confident.
Thes others teams lost the respect to The Arsenal and for his eventual superiority.
We are now a normal team for surprising of everybody. Our faults,defeats,bad scores,low performance, are always news are always criticized
JM, you never mince words, do you?? 😀 Unfortunately, everything you’ve said is true. 🙁 🙁
Concrete Jungle where only the fittest survive. Once recorded in London, Grey Whistle Test, 1973.
Hiya, Dutch. I find I’m still depressed about yesterday. I hope you’re faring better.
Afternoon all,
Dutch, we’re more Tight Fit – The lion sleeps tonight than Bob Marley – Concrete Jungle.
FA Cup draw coming up….
Home to Crawley Town would do…
More likely to be Walsall away, or Tranmere away, or York away, or Newcastle away…
Micko and DG whats good?
dna, we get a couple of days off before Arsenal play again, that’s pretty good.
Afternoon all…..
Brrrr out there…
hi there
I watched it!
It was bad but not that bad….. until the last few minutes. Lack of experience can be blamed for the Jenk’s giveaway, he should have either put the ball in to touch or passed back to Szczesny.
It looks like we are not going to lose Gervinho to the ACN after all, the Ivory Coast would have to be absolutely desperate to include a striker of such poor technique and so totally lacking in form. That attempt at a headed goal that finished up near the corner flag was embarrassing as was his two Bales (dictionary definition “A Bale”…An attempt to con the referee into believing a foul has been perpetrated on you. See also “A Rooney”)
That’s us out the FA Cup then………….
Micko i dont really care about the CL game, AW need to give the first 11 a couple days off, so they can be ready for the epl game on sat, if we don’t get a win against WB he is in big trouble, there is big unrest among the fans.
We don’t really want to lose again though DNA, there’s already a big black cloud hanging over the club.
We usually have a gentlemens agreement with these Greek clubs anyway, the home team gets the 3 points, at least thats how it’s usually panned out down the years.
Just looking at the squad micko and i can’t see the reason why these players fail to get a result against sunderland, villa, fulham, norwich, stoke, swans and everton.
Hartson comments on TS
http://www.talksport.co.uk/sports-news/football/premier-league/121202/exclusive-john-hartson-claims-arsenal-fans-are-living-past-186647?
DNA its because most teams have not evolved but have good back to photocopy the AW ideas of the late 90’s and early 2000.
very true tsGH, but until jan i want to AW play le coq, ver or kos as a DM and put MA08 as CM and rotate SC19, JW10 and rosicky as AM. Just to say our season until the transfer window opens.
Most team and managers who decided to set up 4-2-3-1 across Europe are all struggling to grind results. Examples incluge RM, Dortmond, Liverpool to name a few.This system was allegedly discussed in detail by AW during the UEFA managers annual seminar before the world cup. Germany implemented that setup but found themselves hitting a brick wall against certain teams.
Chelsea since 2003 had played the christmas true or diamond formation (4-3-2-1 or 4-1-2-1-2) however, Di Matteo after attending the UEFA seminar opted to switch to the same set up AW uses.
Last season everyone thought the 3-5-2 and 4-1-4-1 had been mothballed but following the performances of certain teams in the EC majority of managers have realised they do not have the right players in the key positions that will make a team set up using 4-3-3 and its variation to be successful.
Strangely enough when elite football had gotten rid of the traditional DM amongst their ranks, teams below them have instead deployed DM to a degree that can only be worrying for the ‘total football’ practitioner.
AW has this season flirted with all 3 formations to varying degrees but has been unwilling to move away from his preferred 4-2-3-1 formation due to reasons that may possibly to attributed to a lack of a true DM.
Dna, I would prefer Kosser there or even Djourou. AW has to switch to 3-5-2 as Conte did after Pirlo was outplayed by Oscar of chelsea.
tsGH Barcelona the best club team ever have 3 or 4 DMs and afc has none because AW thought traditional DM is no longer in the modern game, tsGH what team would u put out against WB.
John Hartson might be correct about Arsenal supporters living in the past…
It probably applies to me…
But Mr Hartson doesn’t really feature in those memories, to any degree at all, if I’m honest…!!!
Good news Mick. My mate couldn’t get me a ticket for Wigan away..
Phew, narrow escape…
tsGH koz would be a good call, i think we need to show players like Djourou, squid, cham, ars and the others who AW have no faith in that they need to find a new team and stop putting them in the squad just like how BR is ruthless with some of the players he know is not good enough.
Your not getting off that easy AK I have a spare for Wigan for you 😛
Our game at CL is important. If we win and Schalke doesn’t win, will be the fist of our group. Then, wil play versus one of the seconds except Schalke. In theorical field, there are better teams be 1st then be second.
For other point of view, if we win, we receive a 1 million euros
One more million, and we are ready for the transfer of Michou (Swansea)
Kev, did you let your heart over-rule your head yesterday ?
Has the draw taken place yet??
😆 Micko re Tight fit – ‘Whimp away’ ….
JM most of the teams that placed second are stronger than the teams that came first bar dortmund, i think its best for afc to be second in the group for us to progress
Kev – I could get you one for Reading away too 😉
JM it’s always got to be profit, the lover of money is the root of evil OMG…lol
Eisfeld score again for the U21s
I know some on here say they just want the old Arsene Wenger back but it’s never gonna happen, youth wanders, Father Time has caught up with him, it’s the same for all of us.
We’ve gone from being Champions to a top two side to a top four side to a no-where side where we are today and its all self inflicted with our ridiculous tight wad policy.
DNA, its simple, the players we have today lack the committent, can anyone name 5 of the Swansea players on show yesterday, I doubt it but you couldn’t deny their will to win.
I am not biting… 😀
DNA- Barca only used Busquet as DM last season. Song was bought as a defender when they failed with a bid for TV and Kozzer. Marscherano has never been used as a DM so I dont quite get the 3-4 DM you think Barcelona have. And Juve do not have one either because Vidal is a box to box player. This league is not like any other league so we definitely need one. What we have to ask ourself is which truly DM has a pass ratio above 70% in any of the top leagues? Busquet only. Martinez who is not playing much or Khedira who is deployed in the role Song played last season which most Arsenal fans complained about all have pass completion rates less than 65%. The same reason Makele was allowed to go at RM and then recently Diarra was sold to the Russians.
Kehl is not a Gilberto type of DM and actually Silva passing was less than 60% most of the time. Sissoko formerly of liverpool and Tiote pass completion will make Frimpong look like Xavi but we say Frimpong is not Arsenal quality.
Didn’t most arsenal fans have fits when Diame was linked to us as a free agent last summer? Now the same people say AW should have taken him.
Nope Mick, I have got my work head back on.
Reading eh Rico???
The seat next to you is it? 😉 😉
Thanks Agiriagunner for your condelence message… The family appreciates.
Against WBA. I will go 4-1-4-1 with the usual suspects at the back. I will then play Djourou as the DM and have a midfield 4 of TW, Arteta, Ox, Santos. I will play OG12 up front.
If not I will go 3-5-2 with TV, BFG and Sagna at the back.
Wing backs will be Gibbs and Le Coq. Midfield of JW10, Arteta and Yennaris or Ox and play TW10 and Poldi upfront.
Eisfeld will be on show in Greece i think….
Micko – not me, not any more. Its been too long now…
Yes Kev, bring your own blanket 😉
Or, if you can get a ticket, get me one please 🙂
Did anyone catch the Bavarians and Dortmond 1-1 draw?
Keowns son scored the late equaliser for Reading in the U21’s game….
Fancy getting an away trip to Swansea in the FA Cup…
JD can’t even get on the bench ahead of Squilli Tsgh, no chance of Wenger trying him as a DM, but to be honest.
What would we have to lose by doing that, other than if Djourou had a good game he wouldn’t sign one in Jan.. (if he was going to of course)
Keisuke Honda is reportedly available.
Do you think the board will agree to a swap with RM for Maaurenho. The RM Vice president says he is monitoring AW position at Arsenal. I take it they have note noted we have won less than 29% of our matches this year.lol
Munich are on top of the Bundesliga tree but Rummenigge says AW will be a candidate to replace Juup if he becomes available.
Why should Djourou be sold though. Who can we get who will be better than him and be ok being a squad player. Some may say an old pro but we all know how this league is and how Squid who was confirm as part of La ligas top defenders the season before he joined us look like a deer caught in a headlight.
Sorry peeps for not replying. Spent my afternoon on a live Bob concert, @Santa Barbara 1979. Rather enjoyed it. Massive vibration, lifted my spirit. So I fight another day.
Btw This world is ran by insane people, with insane objectives, John Lennon.
Kev, doesn’t Scott owe you a few dingo dollars, can’t let him off the hook that easily !
Tsgh, not sure it’s the right time to be messing about with Djourou at DM, the league cup might be the time to do that if he felt the need.
Why has Yennaris not featured for the u-21 for over a month?
I doubt Eisfield will play midweek otherwise he would not have played 90 minutes imo. Serge did not feature so possibly yes. Miguel will feature too as he was missing with the u-21’s.
I’m just watching Norwich v Sunderland, waiting for the chickens to go to bed…
The way the Norwich players chase and fight for every ball is something we seriously lack. Who really does that in our side barring jack?
Commitment…. How much does that cost in Lidil or Aldi??
Dingo dollars Micko, you been watching too much I’m a Celeb 😉
Honda is an attacking playing isn’t he?
Surely we need a DM/HM first?
I agree Micko.Safe and sound is not working though. If we have to drop JW10 for tactical reason so be it because its becoming desperate now. I know most fans think AW does not change tactics but he has done this season and it is not working because of the personal we have. For instance we played 44-2 at Liverpoo and Stoke and Diaby was asigned a role on Walters and he did that successfully. He tried that formation again last week with Arteta marking Fellani. The season time AW has man-marked an opposition at his time with Arsenal. How would anyone expect Arteta to make Felliani and not have one or 3 bad moments doing that?
AW not making a move for other DM after Kouyate and Mbiwa after they decided to stay with their clubs for another season has come back to bite our back sides big time.
Don’t think anybody could mark Fellani outta the game at the moment, he’s on fire, a right handful.
Arteta probably knew more about Fellani than anyone but like you say a bit of a mis-match.
WBA are going through a bit of a sticky patch themselves right now so its gonna be a very edgey game next weekend, the natives are restless.
Honda is a true ball player with variety to his game. What we have to bear in mind Rico is that if you are not creating chances no matter how good you are defensively, you are still going to concede at a club like ours where a draw is not enough.
So we need a DM and a natural playermaker to allow players like Santi to settle into this league.
Norwich 2-0
In the CL, the winners clubs of their groups ara always the best ones.
Rico the one who runs and chases in our team is slated every other day and you did not even mention his name. Ramsey. He may not be good defensively but that will come with coaching. In 2011 Cesc after he left Arsenal said he rated Ramsey higher than JW10 but he needed to work on the final pass.
And he has more goals and assist than JW10 controversial but very true albeit Ramsey has played 121 times for Arsenal with nearly 70 coming as sub whilst JW10 has played 72 times for us with most coming as a starter. Saying that JW will flourish next to a natural DM something we do not have.
After 7 years we still don’t have a team able to turn profit out of the self-inflicted collapse by one of our direct EPL rivals, Chelsea.
That’s the sad state of our affairs. We are never ready when it matters.
Toral has been converted to a holding midfielder
Tsgh – I was writing with yesterday really and Ramsey didn’t play…
If we get the DM to break things up in the middle, I think we’ll create far more.
And we’d automatically free up Arteta, who is a very good creative player himself,….
‘converted’ – why does Wenger not remove that word from his vocabulary??
hahaha Burton is learning very quickly the AW way of management.
Djourou with his height could have been a true DM if AW had not pushed the convert button.lol
Rico- I did not get the reaction I expect from you re Ramsey stats. 😀
Mind you, i don’t rate Ramsey quite as highly as you Tsgh 😉
The next convert is:
http://player.arsenal.com/player/2459-introducing…-alfred-mugabo
Dutch, Tsgh touched on it yesterday ‘Lucrum Super Omnia’ profit over everything.
Laters guys.
JD is still young, as Micko suggested, why not try it in the League Cup… Next season of course, we need to win this one…
Later Micko. Blow the foam off one for me.
Said a month ago, most philosophers starve until their final hour, Wenger is lucky to earn a pension with his.
Dg, and we always get there in the end because of others muck up. This season though I am not so sure….
I know but then again most Arsenal fans rate JW10 higher than Cleverley but neutral don’t. Its just the type of players people like.
Could Ray Parlour have made it if he was a 21 year old in this team? Most fans now prefer 10 Cazorlas or JW10 because of what AW has fed us and that is why we are in this state. On paper most of our current players are technically better than most of our invincibles apart from maybe 3 or 4 other players. However, they had something that the current crop lack i.e hard graft. Success has been offered to this players on a platter because they think they are playing for Arsenal. They offer little whilst with us but leave and say Aw is the best manager they have ever worked under.
Later Micko
Have a good evening Micko….
Rico
Dependency on others demise doesn’t install a sense of blazing your own trail. Rather it inflicts a false sense of pride.
I have to disagree a tad there Tsgh, I would rather we had eleven players like both Wilshere and Parlour than some of the overseas players who are either in our squad or in the PL….
I don’t care if a player costs £10, or £10 million either, what they have in their heart and mind mean more imho As does their work ethic…..
When Wenger first joined us, he inherited a bunch or great workers, and players who lived and breathed Arsenal and that rubbed off on the likes of Paddy, Petit, Overmars etc etc etc but at some stage, maybe around 2005/06, we started running out of true Gunners in the side…
The rest is history in my opinion….
Agree Dg, but that is how it’s been all too often
We have had a few seasons where only luck and other teams bad fortune meant we made top 4.
And all getting into the top 4 means is we enter another competition with a very frail squad…
At the end of the season, the table just shows the points and that’s all the board and Wenger care about. Oh, and the money the CL brings I guess…
Bang on rico
Rico
That’s why I posted the Marley performance earlier. We have bid our legacy farewell leaving Highbury and entered the Concrete Jungle.
Which bit fred?
I saw that Dg, right now I wish we were still at Highbury, great players, great atmosphere and great to watch….
If project development wasn’t on the table Kroenke would never been interested.
Think all of that mate 21+25
Totally agree Dg, as he knew he’d have to try and match Roman back then, that would have caused him a bit of a fright…
I can understand why the club needed to pull the purse strings in, we probably all knew that but for this long? And why all the spin and rubbish over the last few seasons…
And now of course we just sell sell sell….
Thanks fred…
Our house has become an impartial venue, Gunners look as much as visitors as the traveler does. (Not the fans, the team.)
Rico
Stan doesn’t build teams, he exploits the grounds they walk on. Same he built his fortunes on, developing shopping grounds but never actually owned a shop.
That’s because no clubs fear us any more Dg, they know how we will line up, they know how we will play and they know which players to stop…
They also know that no matter what, they won’t get any surprises, not any more…
Well, I just wish he’d push off Dg, stay in his own country and concentrate on his Rounders clubs or whatever it is he owns over there…
Fear starts where respect as an opponent is justified.
Rico
To heavy investors, rain makers or shakers alike, anything of flesh and blood either complains or cost money to produce assets. People are just intermediates between the flow of cash rivers.
That’s how and why Fergie’s lot win so often, every team knows that even at 3-0 down, Manure will not give up…..
We used to be like that….
You lost me there Dg 😉
Do you mean Kroenke is only here short-term, before Usmanov comes calling…
Evenin Rico
Hmm I find it difficult to understand why fans think a team full of British players are going to make us world betters. Before AW why were we not world beaters with a hard core of so called Arsenal true and true? The same way England before the so called influx of foriegn players had not done well since 1966.
Also Parlour has stated on numerous occasions he is a WHU fan but he was at Arsenal long enough to be profession and fight for the cause. You don’t have to be born and bred in Islington to fight for your football club. If that was the case Bilbao would be the best club in the world. The same way a non British national like the Nepalese are considered the most loyal and fierce fighters in the British Army. The same way a black Fijian is the only SAS soldier to be immortalised in Hereford.
I can understand if you say a good mixture of both home grown and foreign buys but solely English players then we must as well support Stoke Utd.
How many of Fergies 1999 winning team where purely British? 😉
… world beaters even
Fergie..makes sure when a top young english talent comes on the scene his in with a bid..smalling,jones,rooney,oxo,ramsey could go on.
And the younger kids never let us as down as this bunch of so called experienced players the fans called for. The average age of this team is the highest since 2006 and we are setting the wrong kind of records.
As Tony Adams asked which Arsenal do we want back? The Arsenal of highbury with a 35k audience will not be able to attract the big names anyway and we may possibly be worse of than we are now.
Lets just hope AW and his cronies start to ask for investment.
Evening Adam..
Tsgh – it’s not about them being British, it’s about what is inside them, what they give week in week out. Whether that kind of player is English or African, i couldn’t give a toot but both Jack and Romford give/gave everything, each time they pull on an Arsenal shirt….
Just popping off for dinner, back in a short while…
and what about Pennant the most expensive 16 y.o to Ox now? We even bid for Powell but like Jones he choose to stay up north. And talking of Jones his injury record is comparable to Abu Dhabi and Woodgate at the amount Fergie paid for him but than again manure have 3 times more revenue than ours so they can afford to take the hit. 😉
Sorry madam,
I meant that, short or long term, Stan will not invest his own money in anything with lungs and a heart. Like athletes. See how Torres value had plummeted for example. Not the sort of risk his kind of investors look for.
He knew, he would inherit a fanbase on its high, calculating the years needed to recover his loan plus interest. After that all becomes profit no matter what staff you employ.
tsGH..
Pennant was a talent,but like a lot of players got to big for his boots,but the reason he never made it,was his dad kept going to the training ground telling wenger where to play him.
I love Ray P..but you know what he got to big for his boots….have a look at the mars-bar on his chin..Ray Parlour got his act together and the billy big bananas was history thank god.
DG investers like Roman and Akhmetov are rare to find look at Malaga and Portsmouth as examples. And Usmanov has never promised to give any money to the club….
fred there are several examples we can make. JET as an example bought a DB9 with his first contract whilst Cesc was in this country since 16 but never got in trouble.
How many British players are coming through the system? Most would like to blame AW and the foreigners but the fact is it is the attitude of the players that causes them to falter. Bentley is another
park is on the bench for Celta tonight
PSG are sitting 4th in ligue 1 with all the money they have spent
Thank Dg, sorry about that 😳
Tsgh, Usmanov has said he will spend money hasn’t he? And hasn’t he already offered Stan some? But was rejected….
Ginge mate,
I agree, but at least AU owns shops and businesses heavily dependant on human capital. Stan owns concrete with a lot of janitors.
No need to apologize maam, if something isn’t explained properly.
And on the wage bills compare ours to lfc
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/may/04/liverpool-wage-bill-increase-accounts
Really? Didn’t PHW tell Usmanov to donate to the club if he wanted. It wouln’t be accepted though saying that.
The contrast between Usmanov and Stan is as Dg says and also Usmanov saying he would not pay the debt off as quickly as we are now
Thanks Dg…
Didn’t he say all that in the letter he sent to the club?
And I am sure I read that he offered money but got refused..
Oh well, I must have got that wrong then….
You may be right. But re-read Usmanov letter dated July 2012 again. Pay particular attention to para 11.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18725835
….. This policy does not seem to have changed. We have sought and been refused any meetings with Mr Kroenke despite the fact that we own almost 30% of the Club or to put another way almost 1 in every 3 seats in the stadium. It is clear that our stated policy for the major shareholders, namely Mr Kroenke and ourselves, to inject non-dividend paying equity into the Club by way of a rights issue to reduce the debt and invest in the future is of no interest to the Board. Mr Kroenke was sold a vision by the Board at the time that the Club could be successful without further investment, so he is pursuing a similar policy which is to run the Club without any investment and to avoid any dilution of his equity, a good part of which was funded by a loan from Deutsche Bank AG to KSE, UK, Inc. at the time of the mandatory offer. The status of that loan and whether it is still outstanding has not been clarified by Mr Kroenke.
As a consequence of this policy, which is dressed up as prudent financial planning, it is down to our manager, and not the shareholders, to have to deal with the Club’s tight finances, carry the burden of repaying the stadium debt by selling his best players and having to continue to find cheaper replacements. All of that, naturally, comes at the expense of performance on the pitch.
This policy is leading to the loss of our best players, often to our main competitors, and even causes the players themselves to question their future at the Club and the Club’s ambitions. The situation with our captain and outstanding performer from last season Robin van Persie sums this up. Yet again we are faced with losing our true marquee player at the Club because we cannot assure him of the future direction and give confidence that we can win trophies. Where are the safeguards to ensure that this doesn’t happen again and again in the future? As a top Club we should, at the very least, match if not beat the offers that other clubs make to try and lure our very best players away, and also provide a more compelling vision of the future. You can try and put a good face on a bad game for as long as you want, pontificating about the merits of this model, but it will not hide the obvious fact that it just does not allow our great manager to fully realize his managerial talent and deliver success for the fans who are paying the highest prices in the land. It appears that a place in the Champions League will be the pinnacle of our ambition again next season. Unfortunately, in the future we may see this ambition lowered further. It doesn’t help to turn a blind eye to the reality of the situation and keep thinking of ourselves as being in the same league as Real Madrid, Chelsea, Manchester City and Barcelona. To have a fighting chance of success, which means winning trophies, we need to match them in every aspect, including, if not first and foremost, financial.
Most fans should bear this in mind when they say we have £70M in the bank
….As a consequence of this policy, which is dressed up as prudent financial planning, it is down to our manager, and not the shareholders, to have to deal with the Club’s tight finances, carry the burden of repaying the stadium debt by selling his best players and having to continue to find cheaper replacements. All of that, naturally, comes at the expense of performance on the pitch.
TSGH. Your point is?
my point is we can blame AW as much as we want but the fact remains the same. The board are big liars. Saying that with these players there is no excuse for where we are
anyway nice chatting. good night all
‘It doesn’t help to turn a blind eye to the reality of the situation and keep thinking of ourselves as being in the same league as Real Madrid, Chelsea, Manchester City and Barcelona. To have a fighting chance of success, which means winning trophies, we need to match them in every aspect, including, if not first and foremost, financial.’
There you go Tsgh, R&W plan to match the other clubs and surely that means R&W (AU) know they have to and will be, investing money into the club….
Sorry tsgh, i thought you were suggesting that R&W would not guarantee us spending some money…
Night Tsgh, have a good evening….
Rico. That is what I thought which is why I asked.
No guarantees either way.
Nite Ginge. Enjoy your evening. I get where you were going but most here want to be told the bottom line. Can’t blame anyone for that either. We have been studying the Arsenal to death. Everybody is tired of theoretical chewing gum. Practice what you preach, is our last and only demand available.
X-Factor has just started, where’s Rico…??? 😉
I think he’d spend Adam…
I’m here Kev, X-factor is recording 😉
The big question in my mind is ‘would we be any worse off than we are now if R&W Holdings bought Kroenke out’?
My own view is no……
Seems that the Bolton Wanderers fans aren’t very happy with Benik Afobe…
Wonder if he’ll get sent back to Arsenal now that Dougie Freedman has replaced Owen Coyle…???
Personally, i wouldn’t mind him back at Arsenal if he isn’t going to get a game at The Reebok…
Joel Campbell scored for Real Betis….
Why Arséne Wenger remains the solution to Arsenal’s problem.
02/12/2012
0 Comments
Things at Arsenal are obviously not as they should be. This came to a crescendo in this weekend’s dismal performance and result against the improved, but by no means unbeatable, Swansea City. Arsenal once again looked sloppy and fatigued as Wenger had mentioned in his post-match conference from the Everton game midweek.
With Arsenal sitting 10th in the table at the start of December further calls for Arséne Wenger to step down have begun to ring out. Whilst I appreciate Arsenal do need to improve if they are to stand any chance of retaining a Champions League place or winning a trophy this season, getting rid of Wenger is simply not the right option.
Piers Morgan, a controversial celebrity fan who uses the social media network of twitter to express his views on Arsenal has been particularly blunt and in some senses short-sighted about his views regarding Wenger. He has correctly identified a problem, and has found an easy solution in changing manager. Seems logical enough, but what realistically is any manager going to do that Wenger can’t? The problem lies above Wenger, in a board unwilling to spend the money on the talent that wins trophies nowadays. Morgan this week cited a few targets Arsenal should strive for including Manchester City’s talismanic midfielder Yaya Touré. Whilst the signing of Touré would be an incredible feat, it is simply unfeasible. Firstly, why on earth would Touré leave the champions of England for a club that currently languishes in 10th place? Secondly, why would City, a club which seems to have endless financial resources, even contemplate selling? A truly ridiculous suggestion by Morgan on this occasion unfortunately.
The case for Wenger to vacate is growing, bad results, a deteriorating style of play, constant sales of top players (Van Perise, Fabregas and Nasri most noticeably) and most importantly, a lack of silverware all count against him. Despite this, Wenger continues to build a team that has shown glimpses of being as powerful as his previous sides and with the budget he has, he strives for realistic goals, such as a top 4 finish, which Morgan remains so adamant is more important than a trophy.
In some ways, I agree. An FA cup for example, would show Arsenal to be the great team they really are whilst instilling some much needed confidence and keeping the fans happy, but would I sacrifice this for a top 4 finish? Never. Why? Because Liverpool did a few seasons ago and look how they turned out. Not only does not coming in the top 4 have huge financial implications, it also ensures the big names, necessary for competing for the major honours, aren’t as attracted to the club. Take Huntelaar (a current Arsenal target) for example, who would he sign for, a club who finished 5th but won the FA cup, or a club that guarantees him Champions League football? The answer is surely obvious. For this reason and numerous others, it’s imperative Wenger is given more time and a competitive budget to spend.
On the other side of the coin, Arsenal could decide enough is enough, force Wenger out and begin the search for a new manager. Morgan has suggested Pep Guardiola who achieved so much as Barcelona coach, but again, is this realistic? It would be a challenge for him to bring Arsenal back to the top, but a top coach such as himself could compete for bigger jobs, such as a long term solution to Chelsea’s managerial issues, or perhaps even Ferguson’s replacement. It’s a horrible truth, but Arsenal, at present, aren’t as strong as other clubs in the Premier League, and whilst that’s still the case, a realistic approach needs to be taken as to how we can regain that status? Outrageous transfer targets or the top coaches around aren’t what Arsenal need, a few world class players and the rediscovery of what made the Arsenal of old so ruthless is. Wenger shouldn’t have a job for life due to previous success, but he should have a job until it is obvious someone else could do it better, which at the moment isn’t the case at all.
Written By Luke Girling
Rico
I want an owner who’s face is among the crowds every home game. And no, Abramowitz isn’t the sort. But there’s only one of him and he already owns a football club. So, no need to compare if there’s no chance that ever happens.
Afobe would be better off with the under 21’s Kev, his future team mates….
Arsenal: Arsene Wenger faces toughest test
Comments (185)
Arsene Wenger insists he will only assess his future at the end of the season while there is no suggestion that Arsenal’s board are even contemplating a change of manager.
And yet before, during and after Arsenal’s 2-0 loss to Swansea City at Emirates Stadium on Saturday there was the growing sense that a pivotal moment has been reached in the reign of a man who will forever be regarded as one of the club’s iconic figures.
By Phil McNulty BBC
It is widely accepted Wenger’s legacy means he will only leave Arsenal on his own terms but rarely, if ever, has he had to listen to such criticism of his team and himself as he did after Saturday’s loss.
The Black Scarf Movement of Arsenal fans protested before the game at the manner in which the club is being run while on the pitch they produced the sort of performance that will only intensify the increasing sense of unease around Wenger.
Wenger compiled such a list of successes up until 2005 that even when the supply ran dry he would always be able to draw on a rich reservoir of goodwill to sustain him through the barren times.
The harsh words aimed at club, team and Wenger as they strive to end seven years without a trophy – culminating in Saturday’s march and the toxic reaction from fans at the final whistle – suggests supplies are running low.
In Wenger’s defence, it must be stated that Arsenal have already secured a place in the last 16 of the Champions League for the 13th successive season, are in the last eight of the Capital One Cup and even though they currently lie 10th in the Premier League they are only five points away from Tottenham in fourth place.
This is the same Spurs team Arsenal thrashed 5-2 in the north London derby only two weekends ago – a piece of context Wenger will use to frame the current wave of criticism heading his way.
The bad news heads his and Arsenal’s way when it comes to complaints about the direction of the club and of the widening distance between the Gunners and Manchester United and Manchester City, clubs they and their supporters rightly regarded as natural rivals not so long ago.
And while Arsenal’s stability is in the starkest contrast to the regular chaos at Chelsea, Wenger’s past successes will not guarantee him permanent security in his post or shield him from an increasing number of supporters who are demanding change.
The change they demand is not necessarily a change of manager but in the manager they have – but is Wenger capable of such change and adjusting to these demands at 63 and with 16 years at Arsenal behind him?
Arsenal’s plight is their worst under Wenger, not only for the lack of hope and optimism that the games big prizes will come eventually come back into view but also because of fan fears about the direction of the club, even though majority shareholder Stan Kroenke recently emphasised his “goal is to win trophies.”
Kroenke added: “The reason I am involved in sport is to win. It’s what it is all about. Everything else is a footnote. I can assure you no-one is more ambitious than me.”
He will need to prove the scale of his ambition to those wanting Arsenal to join the real big spenders but now it is Wenger’s position that is coming more sharply into focus.
Increasingly, Wenger appears to miss the wise counsel, advice and transfer market wisdom of former vice-chairman David Dein, who left the board in April 2007. Wenger trusted Dein completely and in return Dein was able to offer the sort of advice Wenger would always listen to.
Kev
Zero comments to that article says it all. Imho.
No admirer of Wenger, and his body of work rightly makes him one of the game’s most respected and revered personalities, will have enjoyed the sight of him standing alone in his technical area on Saturday as boos cascaded down from the stands.
But brutal reality states that Arsenal are now irrelevant when it comes to potential title winners. This is the club’s worst start to a Premier League season under Wenger with 21 points after 15 matches and only in 1994-95 have they had fewer points in the Premier League era, when they collected 19 points from the same amount of games.
And the question being asked is whether Wenger has the fire and will to bridge the gap and whether the club’s hierarchy is set up in a manner, and has the necessary ambition, to help achieve it.
Match of the Day pundit Alan Hansen laid the situation bare as he said: “Arsenal are in a bit of trouble. He’s got to spend and spend big.
“He definitely needs two full-backs, a holding midfield player and a centre forward – but where do you get them from and how much will they cost? He needs to do it and do it quick.”
Chief executive Ivan Gazidis is a particular target for the discontented and perhaps typifies the “jam tomorrow” attitude that grates with so many supporters who would like a bit of bread and butter today.
He recently told the club’s shareholders: “In the next two years we will have the financial resources to sit and compete among the leading clubs in the world, which is an extraordinary achievement.”
Fine words – but the flaw in Gazidis’s grand plan is that the world’s leading clubs are hardly like to stop their own development for two years to give Arsenal a chance to catch up.
Arsenal’s fans have seen a drain of the club’s top talent in recent years, with players of the calibre of Cesc Fabregas, Samir Nasri, Alex Song and Robin van Persie all moving on – the latter painfully to Old Trafford.
The decision to sell Van Persie for £24m made sound financial sense given that he was entering the final year of his contract and had announced he would not sign a new one, but Arsenal’s claim that it was a footballing decision had no sound basis in logic.
And they have not been replaced with similar quality. The hapless Gervinho continues to look a world away from the sort of class Arsenal used to boast in the past in the shape of the likes of Thierry Henry and others, while Lukas Podolski has not produced enough.
Standards have dropped and for all Wenger’s undoubted mastery of the past they have dropped on his watch. Those who criticise Wenger appreciate what he has achieved and there is no-one else they would wish to achieve it again – but these are undoubtedly troubled times and unless matters improve swiftly it is inevitable more scrutiny will fall on the manager.
Wenger’s sure touch in the market, not only of who to buy but when to sell, has slipped in recent years. January is a time for Arsenal’s board to back him to show he can rediscover that old magic. How successful he is may shape his own long term future at the club.
Wenger will count on young British talent such as Jack Wilshere, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, Carl Jenkinson and Aaron Ramsey – and perhaps Theo Walcott – but Arsenal need so much more before the major trophies can once more be considered attainable.
Arsenal and Wenger have long since stated that money was available for transfers but their ambition has paled when set alongside those their supporters feel they should be rivalling and the latest contract impasse with Walcott has not calmed those fears.
Wenger hinted at adjusted – and lowered – targets when he suggested simple qualification for the Champions League should now be placed on a par with winning a trophy. It was a stark statement from a manager who has won the league and FA Cup double twice and was a losing finalist in the Champions League in 2006.
Is this obviously reduced circumstance the sort of “success” Wenger really enjoys or actually wants, having created double-winning teams and Arsenal’s legendary “Invincibles”, who completed the 2003-2004 season unbeaten in the Premier League?
Wenger’s future at Arsenal could be measured by how he responds to these criticisms and challenges.
Morning all.
That’s the first time i have seen any part of that letter.
It appears Usmanov is a massive fan of Wenger.
Is everyone still sure they want him in,as it would seem Wengerwill be given his chance with cash to spend,if Usmanov gets in.
Doesn’t AU go to every home game Dg?
Kev
You’re over-asking my willingness to read intensely on a Sunday. 🙂
I’ll pick up the interest tomorrow. If you don’t mind.
Dutch, 0 comments could have more to do with disinterest, rather than disagreement or agreement for that matter…
It’s when we don’t care anymore, that’s when the club are really in trouble…
Hi Scott, AU is a massive fan or DD and Wenger I think…
I def want R&W in asap…. regardless of Wenger..
Your welcome Dutch….. 😀
What i post i post for you and everyone…. 😉
Yes Rico, re AU that’s why I mentioned it. 😉
Easy to be comfortable in front of your fireplace. Not so much among a angry mob. 🙂
The part about the board must back him in the next transfer window is right Kev….
Silly me there Dg, I knew you knew really 😉
Rico,i am swayed to Usmanovs corner.
I have always worried about the unknown,but nothing can be worse than what we do know about Stan.
Usmanovs letter highlight what we all know,but plenty seem to ignore…Wenger has a massive amount of pressure and responsibility on him,and it is not fair considering his utmost thoughts should be on field performance.
Too much is riding on the shoulders of any one man,and it must be a unique situation in world sport.
Who want’s to know the X-Factor result’s? 😐
Ok, here goes the finalists are……………………..
Don’t you dare Kev!!! 😉
😆 😆 😆
Could the board STILL be so arrogant and insular as to NOT spend in January?
Also,would it be such a disaster if we did spend up big and the stadium took an extra year or two to pay off?
I do not pretend to fully understand the loan terms…just thinking out loud.
Kev
What you drop is always quality. I’m just too mellow today.
If it isn’t mentioned here, it’s not worth knowing. 🙂
Digger, believe me, they can…..
They could use Hill-Wood’s illness as an excuse for starters…
Dutch, mellow is your middle name… 😉
I know Scott, of course in an ideal world a true born and bred gooner would win the euro millions and buy Kroenke out but that isn’t going to happen.
At least this man goes to the games, has bought boxes at the ground and wants us to challenge again….
And he has promised to look after the clubs history too….
Yes Scott, they probably could…. But they would be stupid, especially as we all know The Emirates has just given them a lot of money….
@DaveyBones (184)
As a Northerner, with no London alliegences whatsoever, can I just say as a complete neutral, that the majority view up here is that Spurs are a nothing club, compared to the Arse. We don’t necessarily like them, but they’re a proper club and ten times your lot!
The russians are coming….hopefully.
Aren’t there any billionaire Gooners in England…apart from those on the board,i mean 🙂
Hi all,
I see you want Eisveld to play cl next week Rico. I don’t think he was listed in the 25 man squad for cl.
Have we established if Wenger plans to change anything, team wise, tactics, formation or even a damn crackers under their asses?
Good old Davey Bones Kev 😉
Fingers crossed they will be soon Scott…..
Our club deserves to be handled a lot better than this current majority shareholder is treating it…
Scott
Look to our new sponsor deal being frontloaded. That will be the board’s excuse from here onward.
Thats a shame Bradster, at least he’s said a second string might go to greece…
I’d send Bould and Banfield out with them too and go back to the drawing board with the first team…..
Right fine folk, I am done for today, off to catch up on tonights rubbish television…
Have a good evening all, day for Scott…
Til tomorrow, Night all….
Nite madam. Enjoy your opiate.
X-Factor was cancelled Rico…. 😉
I’m offski. night Scott/Dutch et al….
Kev
Have you ever been to the Grey Whistle Test? The original Wailers with Peter Tosh had recordings there.
Nite Kev. I will join you, pouring myself a Tempranillo (Spanish wine). I’m so mellow.
Have a good day Scott.
The Gunners were booed off at Emirates Stadium after they slumped to a 2-0 home defeat against Swansea on Saturday after a late brace from Spanish forward Michu.
It left Arsenal down in 10th place in the Barclays Premier League, their worst position at this stage of the season under Wenger.
There were protests by the Black Scarf Movement before the game, as some 1,000 supporters vented their frustrations at what they see as the commercialisation of the club following the move to the Emirates Stadium, which has coincided with a seven-season barren spell.
Wenger, though, called for a united front as he looks to lift his beleaguered squad for the midweek Champions League trip to Olympiacos and a crucial home clash against West Brom next weekend.
“At the moment there is uncertainty among the fans, they do not have complete confidence we will win the game. Has it an influence on our performance? I don’t know,” he said.
“We have to look for a solution from inside, and not look too much from outside.”
Arsenal have been linked with moves for Crystal Palace youngster Wilfried Zaha, as well as England veteran Frank Lampard, who is out of contract at Chelsea in the summer.
Liverpool goalkeeper Pepe Reina, Schalke’s Dutch frontman Klaas Jan Huntelaar and Atletico Madrid striker Adrian are all said to be on Wenger’s wishlist, as well as a possible loan move for Thierry Henry.
Wenger, though, insists he is fully focused on the here and now.
“Until January we have a lot of important games,” he said.
“We will decide that (transfers) in January, but at the moment we have to find solutions before January.”
Despite all the fans protests and frustrations on the terraces, Wenger maintains he must take a distance to keep things in perspective.
He said: “I want our fans to be happy and over the moon, but I cannot say it affects the way I feel, because I feel I have to focus on the job and see how we can sort our problems out.”
Wenger continued: “At the moment, we cannot be satisfied with the quality of our game, that at the moment is more important than the psychological side.
“You can see with the results that it is difficult for everybody at the moment, for all the teams, even those who have invested a lot of money.
“You have to keep the focus, the desire and the ambition to turn it around, that is how it works in a season.
“You cannot go to definite conclusions in one game.”
Wenger insists he has no intentions of walking away this season.
“If you ask me always about my future – I can only give you one answer. I have always respected my contracts, that is it,” he said.
Arsenal will rest some players when they head to Athens for their final Champions League Group B tie against Olympiacos on Tuesday.
Wenger feels the likes of Theo Walcott and Lukas Podolski are “in the red” and so are unlikely to travel, meaning Czech winger Tomas Rosicky could be in contention to start having come off the bench against Swansea for his first appearance since May.
Players in the red…….hmmm who’s fault is that? Lack of depth in the squad, who’s fault is that? Team selection and tactics? Relying on perma injured players? The list is endless……
Hi Lee. I’m up early today.
Welcome to my world Adam, morning mate….what do you think is going to happen with the Arsenal?
Nothing good Lee I am afraid. Problems run too deep at the moment mate.
Monday morning and already your moan moan moan………….
Morning Lee 😉 Morning Adam…!
Hiya WATH.
I’m gonna have 3 season tickets for rent next year, unless something drastic happens. Keep an ear out for possible takers for me.
Adam, You might end up putting them on ebay the way things are going mate…! I am wondering if I will still be able to launch my two..!
Morning WATH, the core of the problem is the syrup et al…you and a few thousand others Adam! You know I’m worried that even if we do add some quality players in Jan we’ll still not get out of the mire.The mindset of the hierachy is all wrong and that filters down to the players….You also touched on a point yesterday Adam, Wenger’s health…he really doesn’t look or for that matter act like a well man!!
Morning gents.
Even i am a mere loss away from conceding no top 4 this season.
The worse thing is that there don’t seem to be any great sides atm,just a few that are a it better than the rest.
I makes our situation even worse.
You can bet your life that nobody is looking to move now to secure a proper manager at the end of the season when Wenger leaves – as surely he must. I always wonder why these “astute” businessmen can’t see the writing on the wall and always seem to act reactively rather than proactively.
I have never felt such a bad atmosphere at the ground as there was on Saturday. Everyone knew what was going to happen. Well, nearly everyone.
We are 10th but 5 points off 3rd so we can get out of the shit, have we got the bollocks to do it though…. it seems manure are a one man team, should never of sold him! 😉
Papering over the cracks Lee?
The Syrup must go – or undergo a personality change which I think is quite unlikely.
Morning Scott,
Lets hope it’s true about the Bould rumours… I think thats a good thing, they been pampered and protected for far to long, when you earn the money they do then your accountable for your effort and your performances about time they took responsibility.
The yank needs abuse Lee, they don’t like bad publicity, he thinks he safe across the pond, amazing that he can walk away already and make a cool 400million quid after not spending a fuckin penny of his own money….! Makes me so angry…! borrows the money gets the club to pay all fees etc etc and sit there like a stuffed peacock asking why am I here… Ur fav word mate he a prized “C”
He’s just spunked $155m on a ranch too, just about the same time as Arsenal announce the Emirates deal.
Bouldy giving them a bollocking post match, is that what you’re talking about WATH?
I still reckon that he doesn’t understand that the fans have the power.
Still TH will save the day….
He’ll be like a new signing Lee. Just like Diaby.
If our current form continues he’ll know pretty quickly Adam! How many turned up for the march?
Adam you couldn’t make it up could you??
Apparently there were more than expected Lee. Loads of empty seats too. I had a mail yesterday suggesting that, for a 3pm kick-off, nobody shows up until 3.30pm. Would make a point I think.
About a 1000 on the walk Lee, yes mate Bouldy giving them a bollocking after the game..! About to time i say
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2241986/Arsenal-players-told-Steve-Bould-let-club-Swansea.html
Morning you moaning lot 🙂
It seems the team may of got that email Adam….
The attendance figure is distorted every game BUT an empty stadium that’ll be a shock to the system!
I see Millwall didn’t let themselves down at the weekend! Absolute trailer trash scum…
With a near-empty stadium for a half hour? Mind you, we’d miss at least the first 500 square passes between the back 4 ( or back 3 if Santos is playing)
How much damage will be done before Stan decideds enough is enough….that is the question,and the clubs biggest problem.
If he walked now,things would turn around reasonably quickly.
Another 12 months can mean a lot more damage.
Don’t be silly Lee, the team email is they only have to turn up for 30 mins in total out of 90 although not sure they managed that on Sat…!
I’m only moaning Rico cos I need to keep Lee company…! He started it…!
The fans need to make it uncomfy for the board and in particular our missing in action majority shareholder…! Best way to get shot in my opinion, G&H didn’t hang around long at Livpoo once the abuse started..!
I think enough has been done already Scott….
Typical of you men Wath, all stick together!
If you can’t stick up for ya mates Rico then something very wrong !
Exactly Wath, and that way it shouldn’t concern the players too much, mind you, they need a hoof up the jacksie too….
Rico,i mean when Stan thinks it is.
Language Rico, please.
Still, Fat Frank will save the day.
Adam, The Frank & Tel show…….
I have a reply to your last Scott, but I best not post it as I may offend, not anyone on here I hasten to add 😉
😆 Wath..
Sorry Adam, It just slipped out….
This is what you get when you reward mediocrity with bumper contracts, our league position is befitting the club’s ambition!
WATH. Now I would pay £1300 a season to watch that. With the promise of a guest appearance by Diaby and the threat of Squillacci too. Who could resist?
Say it Rico.
Let it go.
Stan is an investor.
Arsenal means profits, and that is all.
i do not think a man like him is easily offended,as he has probably heard it all before.
Fuck that, getting caught in the buffet queue between fat Frank and Santos!
Oooooh now that’s a tantalizing thought Adam….! You teaser you..!
Stan’s a James Hunt!
That’s so unfair on James………….!
I was thinking more of other American folk Scott, they could be reading….
Lee – what he races cars too??
David Blunt..
Gareth Hunt..
Lee, Any of those are more applicable than poor old James not fair to tarnish his name with the Syrup…!
How about “little runt”….. How apt…? 😀
Yeah point taken WATH…unlike Arsenal!
Good Morning my Esteemed Fellow Gunners.
Lee says:
December 3, 2012 at 9:26 am
Fuck that, getting caught in the buffet queue between fat Frank and Santos!
Lee……that one made me smile. And thanks a lot for doing that.
Here its cloudy and also very rainy. Even the day is very sad.
New Post is up guys….
Frank McLintock admits Arsenal are going ‘backwards’ – and claims the club must bring in reinforcements during the January transfer window.
The Gunners 2-0 loss to Swansea on Saturday comes on the back of two draws, against Everton and Aston Villa, to leave Arsene Wenger’s side in 10th place in the Premier League.
And former Highbury favourite McLintock believes there must be drastic changes if the north London side are to be serious title challengers again.
Arsenal used to be referred to as a big club along with Man United, Chelsea and clubs like that
— Frank McLintock
“It doesn’t look good at the moment,” he told the Alan Brazil Sports Breakfast show. “As a club they’ve gone backwards.
“They used to be referred to as a big club along with Man United, Chelsea and clubs like that.
“Now Arsenal get discarded in those sort of conversations, people say it’s going to be Man City or Man United [who are going to win the Premier League]. Arsenal don’t even get mentioned anymore.”
Arsenal sold Robin van Persie to Manchester United during the summer and McLintock went on to state that the Gunners have never got over the loss of their Dutch talisman.
“Last year Robin van Persie single-handedly keep Arsenal in the top four,” he added. “I thought we were heading for fifth or sixth position [without him].
“You could see then it was just papering over the cracks though. We needed big reinforcements for this year. Van Persie and Arsenal must have had a conversation about that and that’s why he left, Arsenal weren’t thinking along the same lines as he was.”
Morning devil…..
The weather is not so nice here either…
Lee, please paste that on the new one… 🙂