Recent comments written in many Arsenal blogs, all of them claiming the moral high ground as to who is, or is not, a good fan, has made me think; just what or who is an Arsenal fan, and who makes the best or worse fans and how do you decide which is which?
First we need to find a definition that gives a basis for establishing what a footie fan is.
There are many variations on a theme available to us; the (noun) fan derives from the word “fanatic” that means a person with an irrational enthusiasm for a cause; or an extreme and uncritical enthusiasm for a cause. My own preference is for good old Winston Churchill’s definition, “someone who can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject”. (Just read the blogs).
These are all O.K. and give a flavour of the beast, but what we need is something that reflects the above but encompasses a more sanguine definition which is readily recognisable by us Gooners.
So, here goes – An Arsenal Fan is; an enthusiastic, passionate and true devotee of the Gunners, and ALL that means.
So what do we mean by “an enthusiastic, passionate and true devotee”?
Well, can I suggest it is?
- Someone who, from day one, probably since childhood, has yelled his/her lungs out in support of our team? Either in the stadium or in front of the TV.
- Someone who cheers and yells encouragement to our team and our manager, not just during the Glory Years, but most importantly, also in the difficult, lean times.
- Someone who would never willingly miss an Arsenal game?
- Someone who could never bet against our team?
For example; there are fans in the UK and all around the world that save up their hard earned cash and even plan their holidays, for the chance to watch their beloved Gooners play the most delicious football and to yell their heads off! They would undoubtedly meet the above criteria!
Gooners can generally be recognised by their Red and White scarves, and the watering holes they frequent, both before and after games. They have the largest number of internet blog sites of any club in the UK, and converse with each other interminably, day and night, recounting the past, present and future prospects of the love of their lives, Arsenal.
The passionate Gooner fan exults in the success of the team, but will drop into a deep trough of misery when they lose. Family and friends know with just one glance at a Gooner, whether, or not, the team has just won or lost. Win and they are radiant, bubbling with enthusiasm and the life and soul of any family gathering or party.
If Arsenal have lost; beware! Do not take lightly the all encompassing gloom that follows defeat. Relationships can be shattered by the wrong look, the wrong word and especially any mistimed or misplaced humour, however obsequious.
For many, the passionate, unquestioning loyalty we afford our team is increased during the leaner periods. It is almost as if we recognise the need for solidarity during those times, while awaiting the success and glory that will surely follow for this fabulous and historic Club.
For others, unfortunately, the converse is true. Unless their team is constantly winning, an unrealistic and naive aspiration, they become despondent, inward looking and vent their spleen in unreasoning, sometimes hateful diatribes against other Arsenal fans, the Club, individual players and especially the unfortunate manager.
They appear to find no solace in the past achievements of the club or the manager; they cannot see any further than a dreadful and unsuccessful season; they become divisive and spiteful and, to the objective eye of any neutral, would seem to be the antithesis of the definition of a fan as outlined above.
Of course, it is human nature to question, worry and fret when things are not going well. It is quite normal to try and rationalise any perceived problems with our Club, our team and our manager. Many will want, perhaps, to put their own well meaning realistic interpretation on events, however misconceived that realism may eventually prove to be. All this is acceptable and only to be expected!
What is not acceptable is the dreadfully nihilistic attitude and crude comments put forward, in the vilest language, by a small minority, who I suggest are not true fans at all, because they bring nothing of value to the wonderful fan base who are enthusiastic, passionate and true devotees of the mighty Arsenal!
Written by Red Arse
Morning all
Nice one RA, thank you….
Very significant bearing in mind our last couple of results…
Frustration and hurt is clear over the last two weeks, but whatever happens, I’ll supoort the club through the good times and bad, won’t stop me whinging and moaning though when glaring errors are made and prove so costly …
Busy day again for me guys and gals, be in and out during the day… til later 🙂
i was at white hart lane in 1971 & 2004, anfield 89, old trafford 02, copenhagen 94, andelecht 70 and most other games home and away, northbank middle knees ups in the 70’s, west stand highbury till east stand grove… had my ARSENE KNOWS banner up in corner at WHL having won the league unbeaten at the lane, the best moment of all… left the bridge when the 2nd went in and looking forward to hlebs return, i love the arsenal, come on you rip roarers
im a fan!
There is no significant point made in this article. No analysis or even a point made, is it wrong to be livid that the team is still suffering from the same problems from 3 years ago?
“Unless their team is constantly winning, an unrealistic and naive aspiration, they become despondent, inward looking and vent their spleen in unreasoning, sometimes hateful diatribes against other Arsenal fans, the Club, individual players and especially the unfortunate manager.”
Couldn’t have said it any better mate. Keep it up.
I think its disgusting how some fans are so disrespectful etc when we lose
Morning,
I’m a PC and I support Arsenal! 🙂
True say about a gooner’s mood win or lose. What makes it more painful when we lose is the manner at which it happens knowing too well that it could have been avoided if the Manager (insert name here——)had addressed the situation!!
Anyway, “C’est la vie”
Have a splendid day all and catch ya all later on
Brookesssy
Hopefully you are long gone. But give it a rest my friend.
If you are unable to read or or more likey unable to comprehend the written word and a properly constructed composition, that is your problem.
You, yourself, appear to be incapable of putting your ramblings into anything other than one long inarticulate idiotic sentence.
Criticism from you is like the tea lady telling a surgeon she doesn’t think much of his stitches! laughable.
Morning die-hard Gooners. Watched a programme last week: “Is Too Much Professionalism Killing Sport”. The answer has to be yes. Alex Ferguson said the last good World Cup was 1986, & he’s right. The quality since has been very poor. And even though it was the Sth Yorkshire Police who got it fatally wrong at Hillsborough in 1989, it was clubs who had to foot the financially crippling bill to adjust their stadiums. So communities suffer as their club goes into administration with the risk of ceasing to exist, or never quite hit the heights again. Who among us can see a Derby or Nott’m Forest winning the Premier Lge without a billionaire investor? In Summary, my support for my club Arsenal never has & never will waver, but I’m becoming very disillusioned with football as a competitive product. The Man City v Newcastle game sunday is a perfect example. Why bother playing the match when you’ve got a referee who gave City the points anyway? I think Rupert Murdoch is largely to blame.
Morning RA,
Nice article as always… one thing worries me though… what the hell is the tea lady doing in the operating theatre???? Stay away from that hospital 😆
Is it laughable because she had him in stitches? 😆
Hi MikeB,
I was hoping my little stiletto barb would be noticed.
That plonker was not worth answering to be honest but I am trying to practise my touch typing.
Luckily you cannot see my tongue moving with the concentration when doing so! 🙂
GG,
I feel a bit the same way. In answer to your question, No, I cannot ever see a lower Premier League team winning the Premiership, let alone a Notts Forest type club.
Maybe if the new financial rules are applied properly things may change over time.
I’m glad about your love and commitment to the Gunners, me too! 🙂
Hi RA,
there are times when my tongue moves faster than a Tottenham Tart, but typing isn’t one of them 😆
Quiet at the moment… all this stopping and starting can’t be good for consistency.
I think the tea lady was looking at the surgeon’s zipper…………….
GG, very good points and i think most sensible fans realise footie has changed for the worse nothing is like it was and Sky are most def top of teh list when it comes to blame..!
Hi WATH,
MikeB, when the lady of the House is playing hooky, there is no fulcrum. 🙂
RA all the financial rules and regulations will do is drive the money and payments under the table and into back pockets nothing will change.
RA,
It coarses through the veins. It’s like your club chooses you rather than the other way round, it’s a spiritual thing that possesses your soul. I grew up in the 60’s when football still belonged to the working-classes, and it was a very different sport back then. Derby won two titles, (’72 & 75), Forest in 1978 & the two EC’s that followed. That’s long gone, & whilst it’s great that we’re up among the country’s elite, we still fall short of Chelsea, Man Utd, and probably Man City now. Aside from that RA, all things being equal, would you back Arsene Wenger to out-wit Europes other top coachesmanagers tactically?
MikeB,
Your reference to your tongue and the Tottenham Tart, brings to mind a comment I wrote elsewhere which got me binned.
There was a request to bar the use of a certain innocuous word. I thought censorship was unnecessary, and said so. I also facetiously queried what else would be banned, perhaps typing with one’s fingers from whence the offending word originated.
I suggested that, if so, the only feasible way of typing would be with one’s plonker, which would leave those with tiddlers and the ladies in a quandry, although I would have been happy to help the ladies out.
Can’t think why I was binned! 🙂
GG,
I am and have always been a great admirer of Arsene, both as a manager and a decent man.
That said, I am on record as being somewhat critical of Arsene’s “Plan A is the only Plan” approach. Much though I dislike Mourhino, and old Purple Nose, they are tactically very acute and sadly I think there adjustments to their playing style, rather than Arsene’s “possession and skilful passing is the only way” tactic leaves us vulnerable.
The short answer to your question is NO!
WATH,
I also have my concerns that UEFA won’t have the bottle to see these financial changes thru. They have always chickened out in the past, so it might be the case again.
Not too sure about the under the table payments comment though. It would be more likely that an above board but morally wrong method would be adopted by Barca, Madrid and others.
We will have to wait and see. It is the only way that Graeme’s wish for more parity will be achieved. 🙁
RA,
I agree with you on all those points, so if we’re to go to the next level, is it time to replace Arsene Wenger?
As always said in this situation GG if not AW who….?? RA how can u mention crapalona and morals in the same sentence..? 😀
RA,
can’t think what that was… I was referring to garrulity. 😆
Good point WATH, although I did couple “morally” with “wrong”. 🙂
GG, WATH again has raised a valid question, “who else”? I think there are always alternatives, but whether they would be better, given the lack of funds is open to doubt.
When Arsene goes, I think the roof will fall in, because I think he alone has kept our club in the upper regions of the Premiership and financially prosperous.
Back to your question. I think Arsene may well go of his own volition at the end of this season, if we have another duff year. He is a very intelligent and proud man and will know very well what the fans are saying.
Will the Board get rid of him? No! He is everything they want from a manager; from his modest demands for funds; his achievement every season to get into the Champions League and the money that generates, and his policy of bringing thru cheap youngsters with great skill.
W.A.T.H,
What about giving David Moyes a chance at a club where he actually has money to spend?
MikeB,
Not that I know about such things, of course, but a loquacious tart is an oxymoron, surely?
RA,
no…it’s a tautology 😆
As for AW… I hope he stays here for the next twenty years… tin pots or no.
People have very short memories, and how much do you think the spuds or dippers would pay to have him nurse them through their new stadium builds?
MikeB,
I was answering GG’s questions about Arsene and giving a hopefully considered opinion.
I too have no wish to see the back of Arsene, as I said I think the roof will fall in when he does go. 🙁
Tautology! 🙂 That would be a big mouthful for the Tot Tart! 🙂
GG,
Moyes……… Hmmmmm not so sure about him, I think the problem with us is we have plenty funds but are we then craving a manager to spunk the money for the sake of it as we can’t compete with the chavs or Citeh so would spunking the money bring in trophies it’s not a given for sure, we know what we get with AW for now and we don’t get saddled with debt and a big black hole like many other clubs are now in or will be in very shortly. I’d like to see an Arsenal man brought in to work with AW the next year or so and then to take over when he decides he’s had enough. For me has to be Keown, Bould or someone of that ilk….. and no I don’t think TA can do it either.
Mike, don’t you mean toothology 😀
RA,
I agree… only concern for me is succession… we need to be planning that now… not in five years time, and the last thing we want is a ‘twitchy’ coming in and bankrupting the club in no time flat.
Gotta go… talk later
WATH 😆
talk later
morning all. interesting read, ra – and an absolutely relevant subject. with each passing season that we do not win anything, i see our fan base increasingly polarized – probably more over arsene than the actual team. opinions seem to run the gamut: some are obsequious, perhaps even fawning, in their praise and refusal to acknowledge he has gotten some things wrong. at the other end, some elements think he is the worst thing that ever happened to our club and remains onboard only for his personal profit. i think the vast majority are in between these two polar opposites: either a flawed genius, or mediocre tactician/man manager who built his rep on a squad he inherited…somewhere around either of these two examples. for the record, i see arsene as the former, but i quite willing to call him out on things i feel he can/should do better. the majority of fans i correpond with on this forum also appear to be in the middle lane.
the point of the above is that the passion we have for our club has spilled over into debate on arsene himself and if he is still the right man for the job.
if i may simplify the fan definition somewhat, i would define a fan of the team as someone who has emotionally invested in the team and wants it do well of its own merits (i.e. not wanting us to beat chelsea only so man city can move up the table). within that, there are different levels of support and committment. the fan who lives in yokohama, never makes it to the emirates, does not buy the kit, etc, may be considered somewhat less committed in practice than the fan who grew up in islington and wore his/her red and white kit to school every day. but both of the above are still fans and love the club – supporting it in their own respective ways, often defined by means, geography, and other “life factors”.
finally, i suggest that many (certainly not all) of the fans who view arsene and the club with an overly optimistic outlook on life see the other things personally important to them view similar lens. accordingly, many of those who are overly negative about arsene and the club may apply such an approach to a great many other things in their respective life.
Hi Oliver,
Just got back to close down the laptop.
If you are around a bit later I would like to chat to you! 🙂
Got to go for the mo’.
ok, i should be around all day…
MikeB,
It’s not about having a short memory. We aren’t the 1st, & certainly wont be the last club to move stadium. Arsenal do not employ Arsene Wenger as an architect, builder or accountant. He is the 2nd highest paid manager in the Premier Lge, for what? Over-seeing a stadium move? First & foremost he is a football manager, whose responsibility is what happens on the pitch. In Scotland, Queens Park play at Hampden Park. What’s the point of having a world-class stadium if we can’t compete at the top? It sort of negates the project somewhat, doesn’t it. Or do we accept our uncompetitive status & tactically inept manager, and say “Yeah but occasionally when the sun shines we play some beautiful football, and look at our shiny new stadium!” Should we abandon all our ambition to win major prizes?
GG,
of course we shouldn’t abandon ambition, but realism demands that we build our team and not buy our team.
The only clubs, other than ours, seriously challenging for the title are those that have bought their teams wholesale… that will soon no longer be an option and we will have a more level playing field.
In the interim we have to show responsibility and patience… it will come.
Shouting for Wenger’s head every time we don’t out-perform teams that have spent hundreds of millions on players is ridiculous, and short-sighted.
I think that what riles us most is the frustration of being so close the last few seasons and that the perception is that AW being so stubborn and having such an ego he would not go and buy the one or two players that we were crying out for that maybe just maybe would of won us a trophy, i think that is what sticks in ppls throats so much and that is 100% his fault. The doomsdayers calling for his head every other week really are not worth a toss but the sensible everyday fan/supporter knows we have been that close and AW didnt buy the players we needed and that doesnt mean he had to go spend 60million at all and I think we all know that.
MikeB,
Or lose at home to newly-promoted clubs like Hull & WBA, with horrible passionless performances, or throw 2-goal leads away to teams like West Ham & Wigan, and fail to beat a very ordinary Liverpool, or to be embarrassed in CL by Man Utd & Barcelona, or still not work-out how to deal with Drogba 7 years & counting…Is it short-sighted to want a manager who can tactically compete with Europe’s elite, and has the capacity to spot obvious, glaring flaws?
WATH,
I understand that, and I get just as frustrated as everyone else, but…
Let’s take the GK problem, which I think he played badly. His first approach to Fulham was to Hodgson, and that got out from sources in Fulham. Wenger knows that in terms of capability Schwarzer is no better than Almunia; what Schwarzer does bring to the table is experience. But is that worth more than two million? I don’t think so.
He can’t buy a young man from elsewhere cos Chesney is raring to step-up in a year or so.
Then in comes Sparky, who incidentally hates Wenger. He wasn’t going to make a sale easy for any money. He prefers to cause mischief.
We were left with a disenchanted keeper in Almunia, which was Fulham’s fault for not respecting confidentiality, and a target they wouldn’t sell. impasse!
We then had to either go abroad, for a keeper with no PL experience or allow Citeh to hold us to ransom over Given… no brainer… perhaps poorly managed but you can’t blame Wenger for all of that.
Spot on. nothing wrong with questioning the club or the manager. I am not in the AKB but stuff like calling wenger a clueless wanker or booing players at the emirates means you’re not a fan in my eyes.
GG,
they all lose games they shouldn’t… its frustrating I agree, but to then call for Wenger to go is ludicrous. Look at Barca’s home record this year… its poor. Look at Manure’s away record… it’s poor… shit happens; deal with it.
This knee-jerk hysteria seriously annoys me.
@MikeB,
Wenger’s handling of chesney makes me wonder how highly he rates him considering his contract is up next summer and they haven’t offered him a new one. plus didn’t play him in carling cup. and didn’t put him out on loan. And he says wenger hasn’t talked to him. that looks like poor man management and i wouldn’t be surprised if chesny left next summer
Mike, the GK situation isn’t about the last 3 months it’s about teh last 3 seasons when we all knew the waiter wasn’t good enough simple as that and to say don’t blame AW for Fulham refusing to sell I agree your right but who was 2nd and 3rd choice and also having it all made public made it also very obvious to the waiter that he isn’t good enough we fail to get a keeper and then have to listen to drivel about the waiter being No1 and having faith etc etc bla bla bla… That’s AW fault pure and simple..! I’d say shortsighted in his dealings.
No-one loses more games they shouldn’t lose than Arsenal. Man Utd are still unbeaten however poor their recent form is. And the only Premier Lge clean-sheet we have is against Blackpool. Chelsea beat WBA 6-0. For 5 years we have stood still & become stale. Same tactics same conclusion. To say we have been close would be very generous. It’s not a knee-jerk reaction to expect your manager to compete with the best for the generous salary he gets. Of Europe’s top coaches MikeB, how many is Arsene Wenger capable ouf out-witting? He is incapable of tactically changing a game in our manager. Is Arsene Wenger, in your opinion, tactically good enough to win the European Cup for Arsenal? That’s what we all want, so that’s where the bar should be set.
GG, I think to say we have stood still the last five years a pretty harsh considering whats going on in the football world. We’ve moved paid off huge debts still finished top four and we have competed pretty well and pls don’t call me a AKB or a rose tinted cos thats the last thing I am but perspective is needed on both fronts and a lot of what you say is very valid but also think we lose sight of actually what we’ve achieved the last 5/6 in so far as a club, yes we’ve suffered on the pitch no doubt about it BUT we have also managed to still compete and as I’ve said previously AW’s ego and stubborness is a huge problem as it stops him rectifying the faults. When the players are actually all fit yes thats a laugh eh only then will we know if he tactically can take the team on to win the CL or the league but for me biggest problem is having a quality keeper and tactics mean nothing if your keeper is a liability and we’ve had a liability in goal for 3 seasons.
WATH,
I think there are very fine lines between… he’s not ready yet – he’s ready – he might be good enough – he’s not gonna make it. Wenger has to draw those lines with a very young squad, where there are a dozen or more who fall somewhere on or either side of those lines.
He’s bound to get it wrong occassionally, but I’d still back his judgement over any other manager.
GG,
Manure are one of the teams who out-spent the others for years. They dominated through money; just like Chelski and Citeh. They are in greater danger of slipping into obscurity than anyone else in the top four or five, because of the debt acrued, and the ages of their backbone players.
Patience my boy… it’ll all come good; you have to believe 😆
CG, I agree that Chesney looks like a poor bit of man management. We all see him as a GK solution for the future, but on the basis of what??? A few reserve games and a loan spell in the back of beyond?
And lest we forget; it was Chesney who shouted his mouth off and put Wenger in an impossible position. Either he caves-in and plays him, and then has to deal with the fall-out from Player-Power, or he shuts him out and says behave or else… what else could Wenger do? Chesney has to learn patience… not unlike some of our fanbase 😆
Mike I agree with the fine lines BUT not for 3 seasons and there were and are plenty older keepers who could do a job better than the waiter and that’s where I think he has failed in solving a problem because as you say until Chez comes in we actually don’t know he good enough. I’d of played him in every preseason game and started him as number 1 just to see but then again I ain’t AW….
W.A.T.H,
When you say we’ve competed over the past 5 years, yes to a degree. We haven’t finished in the top 2 & there has been 1 League Cup final which we surrendered to Chelsea. Since CL final, we’ve been put out by PSV, Liverpool, Man Utd & Barcelona, the last two of which were shocking performances. As for RVP & Walcott, 2 or 3 games, then out for months! I stand resolute in my belief that Arsene Wenger, great as he has been for Arsenal lacks the ability at the highest level. If he was good enough to win the European Cup he would have done so by now. Mourinho has won 2 in six years, and was robbed by Liverpool in 2005.
GG,
Sorry, I didn’t answer your question about is Wenger good enough… You forget he built the invincibles. They should have won it twice. I don’t notice any other manager whose done that… David Moyes? you can’t be serious; he’s still fighting a relegation battle. It’s not that much worse than his start last year.
As for our start; I’d rate our start up to and including the visit to Citeh as the toughest of any of the serious contenders… Give em time. They’ll get us there.
WATH, he did play him pre-season, and I still remember his flapping at a cross he should have taken easily; finished up bouncing the ball like the Harlem Globetrotters 😆
As for the rest; how many keepers do you know who would happily change clubs to spend a year or two in the first team and than the rest of their careers on the bench?
I don’t know too many.
There are a few on the continent all 34/35 who would die for the chance to play for us for a few seasons….. and it would of been 3/4 seasons if AW had got his thumb out his arse a few years ago. Chez needs to play gama after game and a dropped cross isnt the prob its did he catch the next one or withdraw into his shell.
GG look at the money moreenyo spent to win those cups though, thats the point I’m getting at in having to draw a line to see where we are moaning for the sake of moaning without appreciating the situation we’re in and how stable we actually are and this team is as yet by no means the finished article…! Look at whats been spent by all those teams who have competed with us and tell me how stable they all now are…?
WATH
On the subject of clutching; I think you’re clutching at straws 😆
Wenger sees him in training and he saw more of him than we did when he was on loan…
All those keepers in Europe are untried against the PL bully-boys; that’s the problem.
Chesney looks good, but Wenger’s not playing him for a reason… if he plays him before he’s ready we’ll have even bigger problems than we’ve got now.
Sorry Guys…
gotta go… enjoyed the chat; Have a good one.
Your now back to defending the present Mike my argument goes back 3 seasons……. 😛 no way could we of not got an older keeper who wasn’t better than what we had and then while Chez matures we’d still have a decent keeper instead of bill n ben…..!
AW needs to show some balls go with Chez and lets see 4 ourselves…! he’s keen to blow skoke about the youth so back em and play him he def aint worse than what we got, good enough ur old enough..!
Wenger don’t play Chez cos that then admits to the fact that bill n ben are crap and for 3 seasons he’s been telling us how great they are, hence my words about him never admitting to being wrong so wont correct his wrongs…!
B good Mike, enjoy tea with AW….!
Howdy people whats up Nice piece RA and some fans are becoming insane
Erick, how’s you weed man..?
Am good GG man how is work?
Hi Erick,
How is it going?
WATH, a really good exchange between you and Mike. 🙂
hiya ra…
Oliver,
How about a quick run down on the deal with Omar & co?
Good write, RA. 🙂 “If Arsenal have lost; beware! Do not take lightly the all encompassing gloom that follows defeat. Relationships can be shattered by the wrong look, the wrong word and especially any mistimed or misplaced humour, however obsequious.”- Too true.
Boo, Erick and GG Man. 🙂
hi erick and agag and all…
Thank you AGAG.
I’m quite amused that Werder Bremen have said how shocked they are at how slow Sylvester is.
That’s a surprise …… not.
W.A.T.H,
Don’t think Mourinho spent a fortune at Porto. And for Inter he swapped Ibrahimovic for Eto’o plus £40m from Barca. Not seen Wenger pull out any transfer coups like that.
That’s a touch unfair GG.
Arsene pulled off a brilliant coup, years ago, when he sold the Diver to real Madrid for £23m having bought him for a packet of crisps.
Moaniho is also a lucky manager, Porto should have been knocked out twice before they fortuitously got thru to the CL Final.
I know that is a subjective view but I honestly believe it.
On the other hand, Wenger has been unlucky, I still cringe when I think of the CL final, when even when we were down to 10 men, Henry, who was a great goal scorer fluffed two chances when one on one with the GK. That cost us the CL that year. Hardly Wenger’s fault.
Am great guys
GG,
I was referring to Anelka of course. The Diver was my name for him, at the time, although the Winker is now described as the Diver by some fans nowadays.
Hi, oliver. Howdy? Erick, still busy?? News on returning players is great, btw. 🙂
Hi all.diaby wants to win the balon d’or.yeah you heard it right.
ra, omar and jerry are out. no surprise there, we all saw this coming. as jerry’s contract expired at the end of this season, not extending him was the easiest (and correct) thing to do – no need to pay him off. the only question was whether omar would stay on as gm, considering he still has two years to run on his deal. the team’s official announcement stated omar has been “relieved of his duties as gm”, which leaves room to stay with the organization in some capacity. there is support for him to stay on in a scouting/player development capacity, but it seems it would have to be something everyone agrees on.
mets owners fred and jeff wilpon held a press conference on monday afternoon, fielding questions about the shake-up and season as a whole. they once again emphatically refuted suggestions the money they lost in the ponzi scheme (fred had a fairly close association with bernard l. madoff) has not affected their willingness to pursue players. jeff then made the ny sports talk show rounds.
i listened to jeff’s monday afternoon spot with mike francesa, and he promised that they would bring the right guys in for gm and manager and give them total autonomy. he also acknowledged that the team has a core (david wright, jose reyes, ike davis, carlos beltran, angel pagan, johan santana, and now ra dickey), but if the new gm felt it would be in the team’s interests to trade any of them, ownership would be open to it. this put wright’s nose a bit out of joint, but i don’t care about that. jeff also said that omar never once came told them (wilpons) he would like to release either ollie perez or luis castillo, and if he had, jeff indicated they would have. that last point is quite interesting, as common perception is that ownership (i.e. jeff) told omar and jerry that they had to keep ollie and castillo around, because they did not want to have to pay these two players (signed to large undeserved contracts by omar). jeff is basically saying that it was omar’s decision to keep them on the roster. i would be interested to hear omar’s thoughts on that, but i do not expect he will say anything – at least until he completely breaks ties with the organzation. jeff also said it will be the new gm’s call as to whether omar stays with the organization or not. omar is a mets guy from queens, he has two sons attending school (and playing ball) in queens, and there are plenty of other things he can do in the organization.
so that is where we are right now. the mets have asked permission to interview a few gm candidates, and jeff indicated they would be thorough but would like to have a new guy in place by the time the world series ends, at the latest. omar’s deputy, john ricco, is staying with the mets as assistant gm, and will be helping jeff with most of this. once the new gm is in place, they will look for a new on-field manager.
we’ll have to wait and see. jeff did mention that the organization’s preference is for an experienced gm, who has an established track record. when they hired omar in 2004, he had left the montreal expos (when they moved here to washington), and had been assistant gm in the mets organization previously, so he was not a rookie or unknown. i think jeff means getting someone with a record of rebuilding franchises. former padre gm kevin towers was a rumored target, he then signed on as arizona’s gm. dan jennings (assistant with florida) and former gm’s john hart (cleveland) and gerry huniscker (houston) are three we know the team will talk to.
for many reasons, the wilpons have to get it right this time. if carlos beltran had gotten a hit in the bottom of the ninth inning of the 2006 national league championship series, perhaps they would have. and the mets would be going for their second or third world series win over the past few years. but beltran instead looked at strike three and the franchise has gone downhill ever since that moment. the mets suffered the biggest drop-off of ticket sales between last season and this just-concluded one. they finished with a sub-.500 record for the second consecutive year. the fans are frustrated and tired – not least because the yankees are winning titles again over in the bronx – and will stay away in droves if mets ownership does not do anything to energize the fan base. they were in a similar situation at the end of last season, but all they did was bring jason bay (who had a bad, injury-interrupted year) in from boston to address the outfield. no number two starter behind johan, no reliable set-up man for frankie. no replacement for castillo at second base.
overall, the team is not that far away. the mets are quite similar to arsenal in that their recent teams have been defined more by the moves they did not make, than what they did. removing the gm and manager was a good and necessary first step. we await to see what else happens.
It looks like we’ll have a full squad in the city game bar rvp and ramsey if none of our players get injured during the international break.
RA,
True, but that was 13 years ago, and unlike the Mourinho deal, we didn’t get a world-class striker as well, we just got the money.
Song won’t get injured, KT. 🙂
Kt Great news RVP seems to be out forever we need to start punishing teams by half time we can only go up now we have hit rock bottom
Agag at least we know song isn’t participating.i must say lil jack has become so crucial especially when cesc isn’t playing.i hope the FA sort themselves out regarding whether jack is an U21 or senior.
Ramsey seems to be getting back to training Whats up with RVP
Is Cesc taking part in the international break
No erick.cesc is at london colney building up his fitness.
Oliver,
I knew Omar and Jerry had been let go. But what a fantastic write up you have given of the surrounding events and possible/likely outcomes.
In a way, you liken the Mets to Arsenal for not moving for players when they could/should. In a way, now the clear out has started, it makes me think they are a bit like Liverpool, now they are being bought by Henry of the Boston Red Sox franchise, the scousers are already starting to sound perkier. Same thing with you, I detect hope for the future already. 🙂 To bad the Sox finished behind the Yankees! Ahh! 🙂
Thanks again for the update.
I am now hoping to see the Giants at Houston on TV although I haven’t seen the TV shedule yet. We will see.
Hi KT,
You are a constant source of info.
Did I hear that Theo is very close to a return?
RA theo is targeting a return during the city game.rvp is due back by the beginning of November.and to those who say we have a small squad;did you know barça have a senior squad of 19 players?
KT, no I did not.
I suppose there is one huge difference between the Spanish and English leagues. Their league is a bit like the Scottish premier where only 2 teams dominate everything.
Here, not only do we have thug teams like Stoke, Blackburn etc, in addition, any team can beat any other team. Hence greater risk of injuries and a need for a bigger squad.
I hope that we have a break from injuries now.November has never been a good month for us in terms of injuries.
KT,
Not good for positive results either.
Do you have any stats on our average win/lose during November? I may be wrong, but we always seem to have a lot of injuries and poor results during November. Hope I am wrong. 🙂
RA thats why barca are so good.their best 11 starts most of their games.this makes them develop a telepathic understanding and a strong unit.when they are on a roll they destroy teams.the chavs have had the same advantage but sadly we haven’t.if by any chance we have our best 11 from November till we play the mancs and chavs im sure we’ll beat them.
RA i’ll try to get them but in previous seasons we lose/draw most of our games in November.
10,000 years later… Diaby said what??? Oh dear. Diaby should work on consistency, first.
KT, that’s what I thought. 🙁
I have got to go as I have done no work today, but perhaps if you can find anything on the November results we can chat tomorrow. 🙂
Night everyone!
Tomorrow?
Night RA.Agag diaby has got it all bar consistency.mourinho tried to sign him for chelsea and also for inter so talent is there.
ra, how do the televise the nfl over there? do they just choose specific games? if so, there are some far more marquee matchups (than hou – nyg) that will be shown. for instance, brett favre returns to the jets with minnesota. or new england hosting baltimore. dallas is always a big tv draw, and they are playing tennessee. indianapolis hosts (surprisingly) undefeated kansas city.
scrach favre and the jets – i think that is the monday night game.
while not a red sox fan, i admire the job john w. henry and his group did with the team. henry has good people running the sox – larry lucchino is president and coo (the same function jeff wilpon performs for the mets) and theo espstein is general manager. if henry’s group does purchase lfc, can you see epstein overseeing player acquisitions?
A lot of people rave about Diaby; save for a handful of performances, I haven’t really seen it. And I’d be the happiest person on earth were he to prove me wrong. 🙂
November has always been unkind to us in terms of injuries. Here’s to hoping we buck the trend. 🙂
Good night, RA.
agag, diaby certainly has the talent, but he is still inconsistent. i am sure the injuries he has suffered have slowed his progress, but i don’t think that is completely to blame. i would generously describe his playing style as “languid”, and i think that holds him back – not enough intensity. i think he has the strength and skill to dominate games, but he just does not seem to make the most of it. i personally think arsene should be tougher with him, becuase i really believe he (vassiriki) has it in him…
Can’t wait for that to happen, oliver. 🙂 I guess he is Berbatov-ish– frequently looks like he doesn’t work hard enough…
we’ll see. at this moment, i think he is best suited to a complementary role in our side – when everyone is available, he may have to make do on the bench, and perhaps as a change-the-momentum type substitute. i do not think he has done enough to cement a place in the starting eleven – and this may have also contributed to his slower development, as perhaps all the injuries we suffer have forced him into situations where too much creative burden has been put on him. the other side of that, however, is he is not eighteen like jack, and has been part of the first team for how many seasons now?
anyone about?
Morning all, new post up