Morning all.
It was only a matter of time before one of the Premier League managers would be asked his views on the new ‘home-grown’ ruling which Greg Dyke hopes to phase in over four years from 2016, and Arsene Wenger is that man:
I believe that we are in the world of competition. Competition means who of you or me is the best one. We have to accept that. That means as well that the rules of the game must be structured to favour the best. Or we are not in a competition any more.
So we can say one of two things – we protect the mediocre or we produce the best players. I personally would support hugely to pay super people who think about how we can produce players from five years old to 20 years old to be as good as they can be rather than protect them through wrong mediocre rules.
I give you two examples. In Yugoslavia in the past they decided you had to play three players on the team sheet who were under 21. What happened? They became professional subs. It happened in France, too.
Then they decided you had to play three players under-21 from the start. You know what happened? They subbed all three after five minutes.
If we want to sell the Premier League for a huge amount of money then we need to say: ‘buy this, this is the best in the world.’ You cannot go against the quality and what is at the heart of our job which is competition.
The best must be the best. That’s why I will fight against it. I have very little power but I don’t think the idea is right.
The proposals are:
- Players, irrespective of nationality, will have to be with his club from age 15 to qualify as home-grown.
- The number of non-home grown players in each 25-man squad is to be reduced from 17 to 13.
- At least two home-grown players must be club trained.
According to Sky Sports – Arsenal currently have 14 players in the squad classed as non-home grown:
Mikel Arteta, Santi Cazorla, Mathieu Debuchy, Abou Diaby, Mathieu Flamini, Gabriel, Olivier Giroud, Laurent Koscielny, Per Mertesacker, Nacho Monreal, David Ospina, Mesut Ozil, Tomas Rosicky and Alexis Sanchez.
Furthermore, Wojciech Szczesny, Francis Coquelin and Emiliano Martinez would no longer be classed as home grown under the proposed new rules which means Arsene Wenger would need to chop four players from that list to meet the limit of 13 non-home grown players.
(Joel Campbell, Yaya Sanogo, Lukas Podolski and Ryo Miyaichi on loan would need to be added to the above)
I don’t think there’d be a problem losing the four players required but the big issue would be, who could Arsene Wenger sign to replace them. Do we have enough players with the right credentials coming through the Academy?
I’d say no, not right now as they still on the young side but by the time the new ruling reaches it’s end in 2020, the likes of Daniel Crowley, George Dobson, Jack Jebb etc will all be over 21 years old and if they are good enough, they’ll certainly be old enough and their careers at Arsenal should really kick off as Arsene Wenger will have little choice but to play them. Akpom and Hayden have already joined the first team squad and if the proposal goes through, others may soon join them .
Unless he’s going to sign mature, experienced English players of course but with the likes of Chelsea, Utd and City all needing the same quota, if not more, that kind of player will not only sparse but very very expensive.
I strongly suspect Arsene Wenger won’t be alone with his views but with fifteen of the Premier League clubs meeting, or very close to already being compliant with the new proposal, their managers could very well be in support of this idea.
Danny Welbeck was named man of the match after claiming a goal and an assist in England’s 4-0 win against Lithuania last night. Theo Walcott came on with fifteen minutes to go but Kieran Gibbs watched on from the bench.
Welbeck picked up a knee during the game and is a doubt for Tuesdays fixture against Italy but Roy Hodgson said the injury is not serious so that’s good…
Santi Cazorla played fifteen minutes for Spain in their 1-0 victory over Ukraine.
Both Aaron Ramsey and Tomas Rosicky should be in action for their country later today…
Saturday done, have a great day folks, this time next week The Arsenal are back in action!
Morning Rico, great post good to see Danny get the man of the match he played very well. As for changing the structure of teams squads it won’t make much of a difference the FA need to employ thousands more coaches to improve young players in England.
seeing as the proposed rule changes are to be fazed in over a number of year – most likely one extra homegrown a year – the analysis of how many changes need to made to any squad is very skewed, for example due to age alone its likely Arteta, Flamini and Rosicky would all be replaced anyway, also Diaby likely to be gone this summer too,
also to suggest that clubs would back this looney idea just cos they meet the criteria at this time is to ignore that the boards of clubs normally decide things like these with a more long term view in mind, and like I stated above, how many of them will lose “homegrown” players due to age, contract situation etc in next couple of years.
The English FA are trying to abdicate their responsibility for the lack of quality English players, they want to ignore the fact that Germany, Spain, France and Italy (all who have won World Cups and Euro’s since England last won anything), all have at least ten times as many qualified coaches. The FA should follow Germany’s example, the took a decision to massively improve youth coaching about 15 years ago, and the made coaching courses very cheap and seen a massive jump in coaching numbers, and the results are there for all to see.
Many of those in charge of the FA’s coaching policies are long ball merchants, and skill is still seen as something not to be trusted, till the FA cop themselves on and back skill over brawn no amount of silly quotas will change anything for England in international football.
by the way the three clubs in the FAPL with the most English players in their squads are Leicester, Burnley and QPR, and the 3 clubs in the relegation positions are Leicester, Burnley and QPR
The FA will not be happy till the FAPL loses one of its CL places and we are back to having half the teams in the league playing the long ball kick and rush game that was so prevalent in the 70’s and 80’s
Morning Joe, thanks..
Really pleased for Danny and at least he outshone that golden boy across London… 😉
eduardo, i’m not saying for one minute that the clubs who comply will definitely support the new proposal, neither am I ignoring the fact that squads will change because of many situations, I literally looked at in the here and now… and for us, the future..
I personally believe that most English managers will support the proposal whereas the foreign managers, certainly the ones at the ‘bigger’ clubs won’t…
It’s all opinion….
Good comment eduardo I see we agree on the issue of coaches only you put it much better than I did and back it up with facts.
So if two guys and probably more posters as well on this blog can see that the FA need more and better coaches why don’t they.
In all likelihood it’s the fact that because of the cost of Wembley they cant afford to hire or train the number of coaches needed.
Facts or opinions?
Rico when talking about what Germany did about employing quality coaches and the large difference in the number of coaches employed by similar sized countries in youth football.
I am going with fact but I suspect that you are are not referring to that part of eduardo’s post.
How many coaches are there in Germany compared to the number in England?
Who says English football is all about playing the long ball?
And who says the FA will only be happy once one of the CL places has gone and half the teams play long ball football?
That’s my query Joe and I can’t see the FA wanting England to play hoof ball, nor the teams in any of the leagues…
Keep losing posts.
England has 1141 uefa A level coaches.
Germany has 5500 …………
Spain has 12720 ………….
England has 203 uefa pro license coaches
Germany has over a 1000………..
Spain has 2140………………
Ok, I’ll concede that one… 😉
Rico I think it’s fare to say long ball football is not as prevalent as it was in the past but there are still mangers and team who use it as a fall back position when things are not going well.
Several good sources claim the number of coaches in england is way below that of other top european countries, but if you are looking for one then here is one extract from the telegraph
England has 1,161 coaches at Uefa ‘A’ level compared with 12,720 in Spain and 5,500 in Germany. At pro licence level, England has 203 coaches, Spain 2,140 and Germany more than 1,000
As for long ball coaches within the English FA policy group, well Howard Wilkinson is one of Dykes main men as is Aidy bothroyd, both known in their managerial careers as long ball men. the Fa coaching set up has a history of long ball coaches, right back to the days of Charlie Hughes and followed up more recently by les read, both of whom wrote versions of The Official FA Guide to Basic Team Coaching, and in which both encouraged the long ball game.
and Rico if you don’t understand that “won’t be happy till” is using a phrase to remind people what the league was like when last there was very few foreign players in it.
I would also add that if the English Fa was really in favor of encouraging skill over brawn then they would have its Refs do exactly that in all games, and not allow all this “in your face”, or “its the British way”, nonsense that sees kicking skilled players as a legit way of stopping them, as is so often put forward by so many involved in the game in England. Where nothing wrong is seen in a coach(Phil Neville) who has coached England’s U21’s in his time suggesting that Rosicky should be on the end of a two footed tackle for playing a no look pass – a clear show of the Brawn over Skill attitude that runs through the English game.
Good Post, Rico.
I am not too unhappy that Welly will not play the friendly international, and can be ‘fixed’ to play for us against the ‘Pool.
Greg Dyke is usually out of step with the Premiership clubs and comes up with ideas that get shot down, but ‘prove’ he is ‘doing’ something.
Every league in Europe has more than 50% of their top players who have a nationality different from the ‘home’ nation.
Many of the best players in the world come from Africa and South America and it would be a nonsense to stop such players coming to the UK or into Europe — let’s face it any changes to football squads and Home Grown/Non Home Grown rules would have to be agreed with UEFA and the EU – so Dyke is whistling in the wind.
Having mentioned Charlie Hughes, reminds me of when David O’Leary was doing his coaching badges, and how he was disgusted by the nonsense of Hughes, and where O’Leary had to do coaching sessions teaching a type of football – long ball – that was against his ethos on the game, as Hughes was failing him on the sessions he started with, which was playing out from the back. Thankfully tings have improved somewhat since Hughes left, but much of his Hughes’s influence is still within the FA.
My opinion is that until they do something about the coaching numbers everything else is just window dressing that will effect the PL clubs when it comes to quality of the teams they can field.
Worse still the FA have to know this and they are trying to hide the fact that they have f*ck up the management of English football( building Wembley) so badly they are using smoke and mirrors to hide this fact.
I see that the PL is about to put over a billion in to the lower tiers of English football some of it to be spent on coaches and pitches the FA advocating it’s responsibilities to the PL.
I would point out that the point
Players, irrespective of nationality, will have to be with his club from age 15 to qualify as home-grown.
is total eyewash, seeing as FIFA rules prevent players Under the age of 16 transferring from one country to another, and in fact no player outside of the EU transferring under the age of 17, unless the said players parents or family move country too for non football reasons, the proposal is nothing more than a double edged sword to mean all homegrown have to be English, despite the “irrespective of nationality” wording.
eduardo, I know what football used to be like thanks, just don’t subscribe to the fact that it will ever go back to those days..
Thanks Henry – me too re Danny boy, glad he’s getting a few days off ahead of the Dipper game…
Somewhere, deep within his bizarre rhetoric, lies the motivation for Dyke’s latest silliness. I imagine that money comes into it somewhere. He’ll be running the Post Olfice next I imagine.
What I do not understand with all this coaching malarkey is why would anyone pay thousands to earn a Uefa Pro Licence if they cannot get a job afterwards?
There are 90 professional football clubs in England, and we all know that there are qualified coaches who justifiably claim they cannot get coach/manager jobs because of discriminations, so if that is true with, apparently, 200 Uefa qualified coaches what would be the situation if this was increased to 1,000 or 2,000 coaches.
Umm 2,000 coaches into 92 clubs goes something like 21 coaches per club.
Maybe some of these ‘extra’ coaches would go to amateur clubs and get paid peanuts for coaching them?
It’s not the number of coaches that is important – it is the quality that is needed.Nearly all the best coaches/managers in the EPL are foreign – Chelsea, Manure, Citeh, Arsenal, Spuds, Southampton etc.
NB: None of the top clubs play long-ball football, they have far too many skilful foreign players to do that, and the best teams tend to have the best UK players, and they do not play long ball either.
rico many teams have not moved on from those days, and even more of the football people have not moved on from it, skill is still not trusted or appreciated by many, you have to look no further than Ozil to see it.
Adam, now that I can believe….. 😉
But many have Eduardo, heck, even Pulis and Big Sam are getting their clubs playing football…
HenryB its not so much about the coaches at the 92 clubs(although important too), itsmore about the coaches at schoolboy level, its about the coaches who first coach the kids, its about having coaches who put skill over brawn at all levels of football, especially kids football. As others have asked, would Messi have become the player he is now,(considering his size, and the size he was as a kid) if he had been English and had to grow up and learn the game in England, i really do doubt it.
Rico. Dyke is one of these professional businessmen that drift through industries looking after themselves and getting huge salaries, bonuses and pay-offs regardless of how appalling they are.
Adam, and there’s plenty of those around…..
These are a list of the top Nations who have won the European Cup/Champions League since its inception.
Spain: won 14 times and Runners up 10 times.
Italy: won 12 times and Runners up 14 times.
England: won 12 times and Runners up 7 times.
Germany: won 7 times and runners up 10 times.
And 18 other countries shared the rest.
England — Not too bad for a so called ‘long-ball’ country??
I wouldn’t mind some of that though Rico. 🙂
There is no end to the list of daft ideas I could come up with. 🙂
Says a lot doesn’t in Henry, alls not so bad eh… Lol
Me too Adam, do send a few daft ideas my way… 😉
What’s wrong with the long ball???
There’s something majestic about a raw-boned centre-forward, rising like a salmon to meet a 90 metre punt from his own raw-boned centre-half team mate…
And as his rises into the stratosphere he smashes his elbow into the face of the opposition centre-half, spreading the recipients hooter across his mush as his flicks on the carefully crafted long ‘pass’…
Ahhh, I do miss the good old days…
Afternoon All…
whoever said the top teams play long ball football, by even suggesting such a thing was implied is distorting the whole subject. and whatever you do henryb don’t delve into the proportion of English players in those winning English sides, the last mostly English team to win the CL or Europen cup was Aston Villa in 1982
Daft ideas? We all have plenty of them. 🙂
Mind you to the people who’ve had the idea they probably are not daft.
There is a saying that ‘everything can be justified – until it happens to you’.
Here’s a great idea – everyone who blogs on HH has to club together to buy you a ticket to go to the Ems every week.
No – hang on – that’s a daft idea – it would mean me having to pay too! 🙂
Joe Jordan, minus his front teeth, was a thing of beauty as he destroyed opposition defenders…
And who could forget the delicate symmetry of Duncan Ferguson as he chinned his marker, behind the referees back, at a corner…
Yes, it was a mans game in those days…
HenryB I would also point out that when English clubs with mostly English players in the team were winning CL or european cups that their opponents were nearly totally made up of players from that clubs nation. In fact back in the 70’s and 80’s a lot of european clubs had the view that English clubs had the unfair advantage of having Scots, Irish and Welsh players in their teams, while they were restricted to in a lot of cases only one or two non nationals in their teams. so can we expect English clubs made up of mostly English players to win the CL while competing against clubs with free reign to pick from across the world.
Henry B England one world cup the teams that won the European /CL where not just made up of English players the same is pretty much for all winners of the European / CL.
Eduardo, @ 12:44
As far as I can see you have consistently spoken about the English FA and ‘long-ball’ tactics since your comment at 10:25;
In case you have forgotten:-
— “The English FA are trying to abdicate their responsibility for the lack of quality English players, they want to ignore the fact that Germany, Spain, France and Italy (all who have won World Cups and Euro’s since England last won anything), all have at least ten times as many qualified coaches.
The FA should follow Germany’s example, the took a decision to massively improve youth coaching about 15 years ago, and the made coaching courses very cheap and seen a massive jump in coaching numbers, and the results are there for all to see.
Many of those in charge of the FA’s coaching policies are long ball merchants, and skill is still seen as something not to be trusted”.
Joe,
And the Spanish, and Italian clubs who won the CL were not all Spanish and Italian players.
Currently the clubs involved have on average more than 50% of non-Spanish and non- Italian players in their teams.
So – your point is?
AK,
Joe Jordan must have shown Suarez how not to put the bite on opponents! 🙂
Kev, Jordan was a fine looking man eh….
Henry my point is it really doesn’t matter the nationality of players in the team that wins the European cup/CL.
In most cases the best players in a team that wins a CL are not the same nationality as the team that’s been the way of football for a long time.
It only matters that a country produces enough high quality players if a country is going to win a international tournament and that’s down to youth coaching.
Jordan used to catch them with his ‘sucker punch’! Boom boom!
Good hit Rico, generated lots of rather heated discussion……a blog!
I agree wholeheartedly with the notion of educating enthusiastic amateurs and turning them into coaches. As many as the TV money will buy! We don’t get the kids young enough without turning them into “players” they need to e drilled, learning skills, learning to be the master of the ball. Team play comes later, when they’ve learned to kick the ball straight! Etc. coaching at youth or even kindergarten level is, in the main, atrocious. Help has been needed for years from the FA and resources cascaded down to the park teams. It just hasn’t happened. It’s inertia and meanness on their part, plus of course there are insufficient coaches on tap to teach the ‘new generation of would be coaches’ sort of Catch 22!
Even the ‘golden generation’ failed to win anything, mind you most of them were manure thugs and skilless oiks. So what do we expect?
Until some wise old sage takes control of educating the keen amateurs we won’t be winning much, if anything in the foreseeable future.
Is QED appropriate here? I think it may be.
Thanks Wavy, seems Dyke is targeting the wrong area in order to improve the national side….
I don’t disagree with that, Joe, but I was making the point that to ‘blame’ foreign players for the poor quality of English players, and to try and reduce their numbers in the EPL is wrong.
Many Arsenal youngsters would give their teeth (see AK above) 🙂 to play alongside Dennis Bergkamp, Pires, Henry, Özil — what a fantastic way to be coached and to improve their skills.
I am not sure what I have said to be criticised for, other than to give information available to anyone.
Dyke is talking rubbish – again – and it seems many others have said the same thing, including Arsene Wenger, and I bet other managers too — maybe a bit more politely. 🙂
Rico/Henry 😉
Apart from the English managers Henry 😉
Catch up later…….
Henry the Dyke’s plan is a smoke screen it’s all about the cost of implementing the hiring of coaches our paying for their training.
It looks like we agree on everything not sure if it’s me your saying criticized you if so I did not intend to if its me.
Excellent read…
Welbz was superb last night.
Rico was that quorn sausages in the picture/ 😛
Afternoon Rico and the House.
Still having big trouble with keyboard so this is a short visit.
Very good post Rico and I think history is repeating itself.
In 2010 Arsene was the only manager to speak out against the introduction of the 25 man squad and the home produced rule.
Every thing he said at the time has come true and I think he will have more to say when what Dyke has proposed is made clear.
From what I have seen of the propsals there are some parts of it that clubs will not accept. Under the present rules any player that plays for a clube in the Welsh and English league can become Home Grown, under Dykes rules he cannot.
This means that Ramsey would become a foriegn player only
I cannot see Arsene voting for this.
This morning our U18’s drew 2-2 with Blackburn. Both Blackburns goals were pens
Sorry thats all for now.
Joe,
No problem — I probably mis-spoke. 🙂
The only points I wanted to make were @ 11:51 regarding Dyke and his suspect motivation.
The comments made by yourself and Eduardo were perfectly valid, but as it is a blog I thought I would respond with some info – altho I wish I hadn’t now. 🙂
Anyway, I am sure we will chat again!
How many clubs need to vote in favour for it to pass ? some of the bottom ones will see it as a way to bridge the gap in squad quality whereas anyone with ambition to dine at the top table in Europe will see it as a retrograde step. Dyke’s reaction last night to Hurrikane’s goal was captured and way over the top. I did notice however that after Rooney departed and both he and Barkley came on , the quick passing that had been quite refreshing seemed to slow down. First we had Wilshere , then Barkley , then Sterling and now Kane all have been England’s great new hope and saviour. All are carrying injury except the new boy. It’s only a matter of time before a Charlie Adam/ Joey Barton / Shawcross type catch up with him and whilst this is not coached out of our game England will suffer.
Ah Drunken Ferguson, those were the days…..
Thanks Ts, Quorn sausages and bacon… 😉
Sorry to have missed you Rick, thanks re the post…
Potter, no idea re the club numbers. I agree re some clubs liking the new proposals for the reasons you suggest. Just what went through my mind although the ‘smaller’ clubs won’t have the kind of money they’ll need to sign top quality English players…
Good Evening Lovelies and Hunkies.
Good post boss……one which the mind will have a lot to chew on.
I agree mainly with Eduardo’s opinions and Joe’s points.
yes its all a matter of opinions but, and a big BUT at that…….Spain’s top clubs have UEFA ‘A’ licenced coaches teaching their under 10. yes…..under 10. Italy the same. And they get paid a lot of money.
As some of the bloggers here know, I have the same qualification, yet I used to enjoy myself much more teaching children than when I coached grown ups. I coached all the levels from under 8 to adults yet the most satisfaction I derived was when I was teaching under 12 to under 15. Why??? because its more of a pleasure teaching kids both techniques and tactics than coaching adults. I was one of the coaches who was at the forefront with the idea that in our country we had to have UEFA A coaches specialized in coaching children. yes, it branches into UEFA A level coaching at kids level. And specialized coaches means that we specialize in all aspects of children….Psychological, physiiological, mental and social. Plus technique development and tactical movement.
I was one of the first to teach children at under 12 tactics. I was called a moron, a dickhead and what not. but watching the same team at under 19 level today is simply a victory for me. Why??? I had the same kids when they were between 12 and 15 and believe me….the tactical movement has remained there as much as the technical level.
the above mentioned team were lucky not because they had me…..but because after me they had good coaches as well.
Other teams were not so lucky because after me they had coaches with a different mentality and everything went tits up.
Yes, if England want to improve they should simply open up courses specialized in children coaching at UEFA A level or at least UEFA B level….coaches who are interested in working with kids and kick out those coaches who do not comply with the teaching of children as intrinsic rather than extrinsic.
And teach the bloody coaches that the kids are TO BE CONSIDERED THE SUBJECTS OF THEIR TRAINING AND NOT THE OBJECTS OF THEIR AMBITION.
Unless that is pursued……England will continue to fuck itself all over and all over again….and take extreme narcisstic pleasure in doing so.
Rico I think it’s time I called in the trades discription people a picture of quorn masquerading as real food i’av been drooling all day now I am feel let down. 🙂
Hi Devil, thanks…
Like I said earlier then, the FA are targeting the wrong area if they want to improve all things English. Imo, all this new rule will do is push up the market value of any of the better English players because until those young English players coming through any club academies are good enough, they won’t get selected because a managers job is on the line….
🙂 Joe, don’t knock it until you’ve tried it… Lol
Adam is hooked on Linda McCartney sausages and burgers now, honest…..
Dev your right kids need coaching in the skills needed to play any game not just football the better trained the coaches better the kids will trained.
Ramsey just scored for Wales.
🙂 of a long ball or route one
Rico my veggies need to look veggies with meat beside them anyway it would be a bit of a waste when I put a nice beef gravy on my quorn. 😉
Let’s hope Ramsey gets one or two next Saturday…. I hope we batter that horrid lot!
You dinosaur Joe…. Lol
That’s me
Fu*ck Ramsey off injured no idea how serious.
Bugger!
Ramsey has done his groin again.
maybe his wife is to blame for groin problems?? 😉 😆
I read it was a nasty challenge…..
International breaks I hate them two games two Arsenal players injured f…. F…… F…. Hell
Oh it’s Ramsey so it’s very serious 😉
Don’t think Danny is that bad but we’ll have to wait on Ramsey, just hope he’s ok….
I’m done guys, catch you all tomorrow some time….
Night all…
fliping Ramsey injury… another Scott false Flag. 😉
night Rico
tsgh, Scott’s too busy playing-a-round in Thailand to worry about Rambo !
Chris Whyte to Lee Chapman, now that was a proper long ball combo hard to beat !
Great thing about Harry Kane….just a matter of time before he gets a move to Manchester, which club, your guess is as good as mine.
Night
Morning all…
What a horrid one it is too….
Morning Rico. Bright sun here. 🙂
Not really.
Morning Adam – total eclipse here… 😉
Morning all. Miserable here.
Morning Wavy. I think it’s miserable everywhere…
Lewis came second, the Aussies are on the verge of winning the cricket so all in all, not a good start to the day….
New post up now..