Reiss Nelson v Chelsea U23s pic.twitter.com/mYf97uc3XS
— Hale End (@HaleEndStuff) February 5, 2021
Morning all.
Nice free kick eh? Better than most we see the first team players execute. Have we actually scored from a free kick in the League other than the ones from Lacazette and Xhaka?
Jamie Redknapp:
What is happening to our game? We all love football, but when you see decisions like that… you can blame Mike Dean, VAR, whoever you want. What is he seeing there? He goes over to the screen and still decides to give him a red card. Mike Dean has had so many years officiating, and he thinks he’s meant to do that? This is why people get so frustrated when people watch football now, when they see things like that. It goes away from what we love about the game.
The fact that Mike Dean went over there and though it was a red card is a genuine worry for me. I’d like to see Mike Dean come out, say he’s looked at it overnight and admit that he’s made a huge mistake. The game has become so sanitised now. There is no way that should be a red card. It has to be rescinded. The people using VAR are not using any common sense whatsoever when they get to the decisions they do. Football was always a simple game, but now it’s become so complicated with the rules. It’s not always VAR’s fault, but I want to get to a situation where things are made simpler.
Jamie Redknapp could be talking about any, or rather many of hideous decisions the Premier League officials have made this season. The one he’s actually referring to is the sending off of West Ham’s Tomas Soucek for elbowing Aleksandar Mitrovic.
You and I have seen far worse incidents where Arsenal players have been on end of smack/elbow in the face which have gone unpunished, Mane on Tierney springs to mind. The Luiz incident was a shocker, the fact the red card stood after appeal was laughable, especially after Southampton were successful with their appeal.
Lacazette can have his shirt tugged so hard he lost balance yet the ref and VAR let it go, but Saha can take a tumble as an afterthought and straight away it’s a penalty. Konsa can go through the back of Lacazette and get away with it yet Xhaka got booked in the same game for something similar. Or at least that’s how I remember it and yes, it does seem that we suffer most from bad referee decisions and VAR turning a blind eye but honestly, I don’t know if that’s really the case. One would have to watch every game over a few weeks or months to know for sure.
Skip forward to 11:55 mins.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i0mf2MJErgY
I’m just glad Jamie Redknapp is talking about it on Sky Sports just as Crouchie and Ferdinand did on BT Sport because it’s a subject which needs talking about. A lot. It’s all very well having a moan on places like here but only Arsenal fans are here. Football needs the newspapers writing about the terrible standard of officiating, backed up with evidence and it needs doing after every round of football fixtures until someone at the FA does something about it.
Remove ‘intent’ from the rules because a player’s intent can never be proved so why are officials just guessing? Reckless is surely sufficient. Sort the stupid offside rule out, the handball in the box rule and the ‘If a player goes for the ball’ it’s not a penalty rule. A foul is a foul, a dive is a dive – no contact, then book a player. Period. Make the game more simple by simplifying the rules.
Also, what is VAR there for if it’s not to correct a wrong referee decision? Why is ‘clear and obvious’ clear and obvious to the viewer yet not to the buffoons who are sat watching the same game?
Cricket, rugby and tennis use technology with great success. The rules are clear and as a third official makes his/her decision, seldom is that decision criticised yet in football, mistake after mistake is being made.
VAR is a work in progress said Peter Walton but then he would say that when it’s clear to me that the ref/VAR cocked up yet another Arsenal decision yet again.
See you in the comments.
I said for years you do not want this rubbish in the game!
I also said why you don’t want it.
Nearly everyone disagreed yet now everyone’s blowing up.
The rules are changed every year to suit VAR and yet VAR is (apparently) used to enforce the rules.
It’s a joke!
Morning all 🙂
“you can blame Mike Dean, VAR, whoever you want. What is he seeing there? He goes over to the screen and still decides to give him a red card. Mike Dean has had so many years officiating, and he thinks he’s meant to do that?”
………………
………….the answer is simple. Look at Italy around 15 years ago. Corruption was rife. Cases of bent refs were common. Cases of match fixing were common. Cases of managers and players throwing away games were common.
The earlier people in the UK admit that the EPL and PGMOL are not different than Italians or any other countries the better you will be able to understand certain decisions.
Yes I know that many might be shocked that I have said it. But when you keep seeing certain things happening which have happened elsewhere and people got caught then its easy to understand.
BDW…..its not only in the higher echelons that these things happen. In the Italian Serie C (3rd division) a team captain was caught being bribed to throw away a game. He got paid 250K for his pains. But ended up being banned from football for the rest of his life.
It happens on National level……….a game between two particular countries in the Euro qualifying finished 4-0 to the team wearing red (home). Later it transpired that more than one players from the losing team had bet on the game finishing with that result.
The refs and various players plying their trade in the EPL are no different human beings than the rest of the world.
Its not VAR which is the problem. Its the intention of the person operating it and watching it which is.
All it needs is one stone to dislodge. Then it will become an avalanche.
Way back in 1982 Holland and Spain were to play a certain country (which plays in red and white) in succession. Holland faced that team on Saturday and Spain were to play against that country on Wednesday in the Euro qualifiers.
Holland won 7-0.
Spain, because of the above result needed 1 win by 11 clear goals. And to cap it all the team in red/white scored first. So now Spain needed 12 goals to go through.
Which they did. They scored 10 goals in the 2nd half. a goal every 4.5 mins. And Holland got knocked out. And Spain went through.
I am not saying that Dean is bent. Or that his intentions were anything else other than honest.
But when you have ex refs, ex professionals, pundits and everyone together with the dog saying that it was a mistaken decision than you have to wonder why he stood by the decision to send Luiz off, award the penalty and for the FA to withhold that decision
Absolutely agree Devil. VAR is a must in the game but the problem sits with those who operate it. These guys are part of a team which includes the ref they are monitoring so I think they have each other’s back.
Perhaps the PL and SPL could have a switch around each season with half the numbers officiating in each league.
Just like in cricket and Rugby, the TV viewers should be allowed to listen to On field referee and VAR referee’s conversations. That will make it clear. If the FA thinks that referees are doing a good job then be transparent about it. It will provide fans a peek into their decision making process and will help in consistency of the decisions
Rico, I don’t agree that’s it’s necessary.
Use it where it’s totally objective and don’t utilise it for subjective issues, imo.
Again, for years my argument against it was that even with this technology, the wrong decisions are still made so what’s the point???
Why hold up play for something that still doesn’t get the correct result?
It’s pointless.
Offsides, goal line decisions and the like are where it should be used because the himal eke meant is still there and we see that every single week.
The fact so many are discussing VAR proves it’s a major problem.
If it were working, nobody would even mention it.
Take the recent case of Kieran Trippier. He did not bet anything. But he told his family and friends that he was going to Atletico. And what did the family and friends do?? They bet online that Trippier was going there. And obviously they collected the money.
The FA’s decision was farcical. And it was within Atletico’s right that they contested it. And won.
Now let’s say I play with team XYZ. And I, together with half of the team, decide that we are going to lose the game 3-2. with that exact score. I instruct my wife, my dad, my dog and my cat to put bets on the team losing 3-2. And since my best friend and national team mate play with the opposition I let him on the secret. so its 3 points to them and also a lot of money for us and for them.
This scenario is not fictitious. Its factual…….it happened in a EU country. ‘in the 3rd division not in the higher echelons.
EPL players, like other players across the continent are all human beings. Like refs as well.
Interesting that when VAR was introduced we might have believed that it took a degree of obvious bias away from referees and yet it seems to me that those that run the officials have found ways around it. This continues the scam and now people outside the Arsenal fanbase are seeing it and more importantly, talking about it on TV. I felt a little bit of sick regurgitate yesterday when Salah needlessly threw himself into the air to embellish contact and get the penalty. If he had passed the defender, would he have had a goal scoring opportunity? Apparently not because there was no consideration given to the possibility of the red card. Is it being paranoid to suggest that David Luiz would have walked for that?
So, what exactly is going on? I would point out that the truly ghastly wimp named Peter Walton gave us a view into the mind of the referee when asked about Luiz’s red card. Of course he said it was absolutely correct as we knew he would, but his rationale was interesting. He immediately cited the fact that Luiz had previous for it. WTF has that got to do with it? Yet that was absolutely the bedrock of Walton’s opinion. So much for making each decision on its individual merits. If referees are making game and season changing decisions based on things like that and a fair degree of guesswork, like the Luiz decision that Pawson made despite having no clear view of the contact, then it’s time to radically overhaul the whole thing in this country. There should be an independent organisation, perhaps with ex-players in charge of VAR and Mike Riley should be nowhere near any of it.
For offside, one could start by approving the suggested change that was presented by Mr. Wenger (as long as one part of the body that you can use to score is on line…) you are not offside.
I think so too Madhu, it’d certainly be interesting to see how these idiots come to their decision.
It’s ok to disagree Scott. Lol
Well said Adam.
I like the idea of ex players on VAR.
For some years now I have had my suspicions that PGMOL is influenced by outside influences. Not necessarily direct match fixing but more like potential match influencing to shape a narrative of a season.
There are too many inconsistencies to not consider it. Unfortunately the secretive structure does nothing to show innocence.
For example if one ref likes to ‘let the game flow’ then putting him in charge of a game where one team likes to commit tactical fouls will benefit that team. If another ref lets ‘the rough stuff go’ then a physical team has an advantage. A ‘picky’ ref who gives quick yellow cards will benefit a team that ‘falls over’ a lot.
It doesn’t take a genius to work out that by appointing the ‘right’ ref to a game can give a benefit to a team. While this doesn’t guarantee a result in one match, over a season it will make a difference.
I’d like it not to be true, but nothing has been done to disprove it.
VAR is just highlighting the inconsistencies.
Hopefully as the pressure builds something good will come out of it.
It’s boring not to, Rico 🙂 🙂
I assume this has happened in England, as I knows it’s happened here.
Referees spending some time with teams in pre-season during training sessions, advising players of rule interpretations.
Based on that assumption, I’ll ask do players or ex-players spend time with referees to offer them advice from a players perspective, potentially helping them with decision making during games?
Morning Hobart. Excellent points.
Peter Walton is just PR spinning for his mate Mike Riley.
If that had been David Luiz bringing down Saka then he would have been off and Peter Walton would have justified it by saying ‘he has previous’…
Until all the coaches stick together and make a formal complaint about the people running the V,A,R nothing will change, all the fans can do is keep showing and talking about all the mistakes V,A,R make on the internet and hope that someone finally listens.
Morning all from my snow bound residence.
Are the Refs bent?? I’d prefer to think they’re not, especially at the elite end of the spectrum. I’m not sure how much they earn in the EPL but it’s not inconsiderable. It should be enough to assure that they are financially secure and hopefully incorruptible. Mind you money is the root of all evils!
I’m more inclined to personal prejudice. Luiz is a bit of a marmite character on the pitch. I can see him upsetting no end of refs with his antics and occasional ‘accidental’ mistimed tackles etc. Enough for the officials to take the exact letter of the laws and use them to penalise him, if they can. Similarly, with other players who seem a bit ‘over enthusiastic’ when tackling or be over taken by a fleet footed forward! I mean what’s a shirt for if it’s not for grabbing hold of??
There are countless scenarios when an official can upset the cours of a game by sending a player off, occasionally for a bizarre interpretation of the rules. The Wolves game is a good example of a ‘foul’ which probably wasn’t. If in doubt, leave it out! Or rather give the benefit of doubt to the offending player in order to keep the game ‘fair’. I was always of the belief that the prime function of the Referee was to attempt to keep all 22 players on the pitch at all costs. There seems to be a delight from the officials to reducing the numbers at the first opportunity, if they can. They know fine we’ll that in so doing they will be giving a huge advantage to the team will all their team still on the pitch.
It seems that with the advent of VAR the tv men at Stockley Park are eager to get on the case and invariably exact the maximum penalty for any and all indiscretions. The whole thing has been over worked. They’ve made it far too precise and leave no space for any kind of alternative interpretation. They attempt to be objective but too often any decision is shrouded in subjectivity and probable personal prejudice.
I have no solution to the current problems or how decisions are arrived at. I think that Scott’s view use it for measurable ‘foul play’ offsides, goals, corners and perhaps hand balls. And serious foul play but be guided by applying a little common sense, eg the Souchec (sp) incident.
Snows stopped……for now!
I said some time ago that football is fixed and nothing that has happened in the last few weeks has changed my mind . As we well know the “game ” is run by money and money attracts betting and betting attracts corruption.
Throughout the history of sport there has been many unfathomable upsets . We have all seen this in boxing and as Devil said , serie A , b and c it was rife . How many horses have an off day or fall at the last ? We should not forget Peter Swan back in the 60’s one of many no doubt but the one that got caught.
Can anyone remember a game in the top division where a team ended with 9 men ? but two in a week or the same day . How much did that pay out ?
Riley took over the PGMOL in 2009 and in the twelve years of his tenure he has formed a secret society accountable to no-one . Nobody until recently has ever questioned them in the media .
However when VAR was introduced it was against Riley’s better wishes , he did not approve and did his best to delay things and then altered the way it is handled in the Premiership to try and keep a lid on their ineptitiude . However bit by bit it is unravelling , every match due to the virus is getting televised and with that the referees and their usage of technology is getting scrutinised more heavily . Instead of match of the day being able to gloss over incidents they are now up front and discussed at great lengths by ex pro footballers who know when a player has dived or when a collision is accidental .
The spotlight is turning on Riley’s cohort.
Long may it continue.
I wrote something the other day about risk v reward.
A striker is through on go, takes a heavy touch so falls over, hoping a defender is close enough to allow a penalty to be given.
Worst case scenario is a yellow card for simulation-usually, play is waved on without a booking.
Best case scenario is a defender sent off, and a penalty.
The risk is far outweighed by the reward.
There is no parity, imo, and it’s all in favour of the attacking player.
Compare Salah yesterday to Lacazette . One gets a penalty and one gets ignored.
They should at least pretend to look at it.
The whole concept of VAR needs to be re-examined. At the moment it is verging on being widely considered as not fit for purpose.
No manager, no player and, significantly, no football fan can have confidence in the legitimacy of decisions emanating from Stockley Park.
An independent committee, and by independent I mean free of the influence of the PGMOL. It should be answerable to either UEFA or FIFA and headed by a senior and respected figure such as Arsene Wenger or maybe Sir Alex Ferguson.
As long as they keep Harry Redknap away from it or else there will be bonio shaped 9 bob notes in abundance.
Johan Cruyff: ′′ The technique is not being able to juggle a ball 1.000 times Anyone can do that by practicing. Then he goes and works at the circus.
The technique is to pass the ball to a touch, with the right speed, at the right time, to the right foot of your partner
One of my favourite quotes.
Did Chelsea deserve a penalty yesterday?
When I first saw it in real time I thought yes, but look at where Werner put the ball as he approached the goalkeeper, to the left of the goalkeeper and into the path of a Sheff Utd defender. He then ran straight into Ramsdale and collapsed, could he have jumped over the goalkeeper? Was it deliberate by Werner?
With defenders getting back the obvious thing if he wanted to go around the goalkeeper was to knock it past on the other side and try to go around, but I guess it’s easier to dive…
They’re all at it, all cheating and they’re far too smart for the referees.
Perhaps it’s time that Arsenal took a page from the Solskjaer play book. Last week he admitted telling his players to pressurise the refs over decisions, to crowd around and urge them to consult VAR.
Or perhaps we have to get smarter and fall over at the slightest touch a la Grealish, or feign an injury and fall to the ground as though shot as Fulham’s Aleksandar Mitrovic did yesterday.
Interestingly it was Dean who, along with the VAR Moss made that decision, will be stood down for the coming week end’s matches.
have we .all not noticed how, when a player is scythed down or whatever, that said player is deemed to have “WON” a free kick, not that he’s been fouled but that he has somehow ‘won’ the next prize?
Grealish who falls over like mr blobby has “WON” in excess of 70 odd free kicks. And Sky even includes a table with his name proudly at the top!
Ffs where are we going with this stats heavy game? Are we rewarding ‘cheats’ with a new honours board.
The game is going to the dogs.
FIFA must lead the way in stopping this serial cheating.
When youth players are having weekly sessions on “winning” a penalty, then surely it’s time to change
Staggering figures for Grealish Wavy. Imagine if he played for Arsenal. Those numbers would soon drop.
Cicero, Lacazette does, often but seldom does the ref give it.
Then he should practise to improve his technique.
Ha ha.
Blokes like Big Sam and Pulis never helped football and certainly not Arsenal with their ‘they don’t like it up ‘em comments’
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-9228269/Referee-Mike-Dean-sent-death-threats-series-controversial-decisions.html
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-9237221/Keith-Hackett-urges-hapless-double-act-Mike-Dean-Lee-Mason-STEP-Tomas-Soucek-red.html
Not on the ref debate but I just spotted something interesting.
Our 5 oldest players.
Luiz, Willian, Aubameyang, Lacazette and Soares.
In the next couple of seasons they could all be gone?
Will anyone shed a tear Hobart? Not sure I will. That’s why I wish Arteta would start using Balogun etc.
Exactly my point. 5 players that don’t fit the nee style squad will all be gone in a couple of seasons!
Although on Balogun, if he’s not signed then I wouldn’t play him either.
Catch 22 with Balogun perhaps. Personally, I think he’s a gonner in the summer. Shame because a good striker who’ll cost big money.
I’ve been browsing today and I’ve found another surprise. The golden boy award is for the best u21 players in Europe. We had 4 players in the 100 nominations.
Saka
Martinelli
Saliba
And……….Coyle!
According to Aussie news Mike Dean taking a week off after his family received death threats.
As much as I can not stand dean these fans have over stepped the mark.
Geoff, agreed.
I loathe the guy but that’s way over the top!
I hope they’re caught and locked up.
They won’t get locked up Scott , not in this country I doubt that they will even feel a rap on the knuckles.
As for the squad it will be a slow moving change . Luiz , Soares and Willian all came for nothing except wages and it will be churlish to believe that we would get money for them , . Luiz’s contract is due to run out, as does Cedric’s loan but Willian has a bumper 3 year deal and has replaced Ozil on the ” why did we do that ? ” list.
Aubameyang and Lacazette still have some value but again Auba’s wages will make him difficult to shift and if they both go , who plays up front ? as Nketiah is unproven and Balogun is a mystery I’m glad it’s not my job to sort it out.
Looks like we may be off to Milan to play Benfica as the Covid rules start to take effect and as Liverpool I believe are having to go to Hungary perhaps it’s time to call the whole circus off , get rid of all international football and just stick to domestic matches .
You know it makes sense.
International football is an unnecessary event I think too.
New post up now
Ex referee Dermot Gallagher comments will not help according to Dermot
The referees get scored at the end of each much but are not punished by the FA for any mistakes or complaints made against them.
The FA need to look at the way they deal with referees before one of these idiots that make death threats to the ref or their family carry it through.
Oh no it’s not.