Morning all.
This one goes on a bit…
Monday night football turned into fight night, verbally speaking I mean as that chump Carragher went head to head with Gary Neville, a bloke I dislike slightly less. Thanks to Sky Sports, I’ve copied and pasted the entire debate just in case you haven’t seen it, here’s the transcript from Sky Sports.
CARRA: I think the manager has to adapt. Not throw away all his principles, but defend a little bit deeper. Has he got the players to press from the front? He hasn’t got the pace at the back. Has he got a goalkeeper who can play out? I just think that to get through to January he has to adapt.
NEV: I think it’s ignorant to suggest he has to adapt.
CARRA: Is it not stubborn from you to say that?
NEV: No. He has had six weeks to work. Unai Emery has been a coach for 10 years and has been successful. He has his idea and the players have to adapt to him. He has to find out over this first season which players can adapt to him and which players can’t. Of course he will lose games. In the first season there will be some pain for Arsenal in this transition they are going through. I think it’s dangerous to adapt.
I know this from my biggest learning in Valencia. I set off on a path of what I was going to do and didn’t get results. The minute I started to adapt and take people away from my idea and do things different, I threw away the previous three or four weeks of work I’d done. If he starts to work on one idea of playing out from the back, but then says knock it long, you start to get confusion in players’ minds.
I saw Sam Allardyce’s comments on the radio, but Unai Emery is not trying to get eight points from five games to avoid relegation. He’s trying to build a team to win the title. The last thing he should do, in my experience, which was a bad one, is change and adapt because his players will walk all over him.
CARRA: I didn’t expect Arsenal to win these games, all I’m saying is the things I saw – trying to play out from the back, putting the keeper under pressure – why do that? Why play a high line when Mustafi can’t run? Are we saying top-level players in the Premier League cannot adapt?
I’m not saying play it long. Maybe if they can’t play it long, chip it to the full-back as Chelsea did on the second goal. You say managers shouldn’t adapt, but three or four years ago we lauded Arsene Wenger when he went to Manchester City and changed his plan and got a great result. Do you expect every single team to play exactly the same way, no matter where they go?
NEV: No, but since that point a big change has happened in football coaching and in education. If you’ve got children at home you set standards of how you want them to behave. If they start to not do it and you let them get away with it they will walk all over you.
Pep Guardiola, Jurgen Klopp and Mauricio Pochettino don’t have a plan B, they make plan A better. That is a different way of looking at it than we were used to. I played in a team that could counter-attack, go long or keep possession – we adapted during games. It’s different now.
CARRA: But you’ve criticised people on this show for not having that plan…
NEV: We’ve never criticised Sam Allardyce or anybody for their style. We’ve always appreciated different styles. We’ve never asked a manager to change his style and you’re asking him to change his style.
CARRA: I’m not asking him to change his style.
NEV: You are.
CARRA: I’m asking him to adapt and not leave himself in situations. Seven or eight times in that game they could have conceded a goal.
NEV: After five weeks?
CARRA: Hold on, I haven’t finished…
NEV: Jamie’s little PowerPoint that he’s done here is lovely. (Above pic)
CARRA: You should have taken it to Valencia…
NEV: Goalkeeper comfortable on the ball? If Petr Cech isn’t comfortable then he will bring [Bernd Leno] in. Start attacks from the back? If they can’t he will bring new defenders in.
CARRA: Who?
NEV: Hang on a second. The high defensive line? Pochettino does it, Guardiola does it. If he can’t do it then he will get Mustafi out and bring somebody else in. Press from the front? If Ozil won’t do it then he will get him out.
CARRA: That’s not what we’re talking about.
NEV: Don’t change your ideas. This is the idea that all football mangers now want to go to.
CARRA: Yes, you’re saying he’s going to get these players out. I’m not saying his idea is wrong – it’s what the best teams in the country do – but right now there’s nobody in that teams that tick those boxes. You’re talking about a lot of pain and the idea of a four or five-year contract, but what you were saying before about how you bring your children up is an Academy coach’s way of thinking. Emery has got to get results. It is Arsenal Football Club. They should be A*, graduating for university people at that club.
NEV: In the first year they will be working it out, implementing his ideas and they’ll be fifth or sixth. Next year they should be challenging for the top four after three transfer windows. The year after he should be moving up towards first, second or third.
My view is this is a three-year project to try and get his ideas into the players. The last thing he should do in the early phase is lose control of the dressing room by adapting and taking away his principles.
CARRA: Will he get three years? He’ll have to get results. He’ll get 12 months and he’ll start the next season. I don’t think Arsenal are going to sack Emery and they shouldn’t no matter what. But I can’t believe the idea that we can’t ask the top-level people in the Premier League to adapt in a football game. You’re telling me you can’t give footballers certain other messages and they can’t understand football that much.
NEV: Walk into a dressing room for four or five months and try and do it. You’ll find the difficulty of trying to tell players three or four different instructions for the same role.
CARRA: The way we grew up… you can’t coach players like that no more?
NEV: It’s different! You’ve got to adapt.
CARRA: Why’s it different?
NEV: We’ve got to adapt as coaches, not the players! The players have changed and education has changed. Young people have changed.
CARRA: You sound like the Education Secretary!
NEV: You sound like a prehistoric old man!
Well, that was tasty and the bit I especially found amusing was Neville tell Carragher to walk into a changing and tell players to do something within five months. It’d take at least that amount of time for players to get to grips with his accent..
On a more serious note, which one of the two to you agree with, if either. I lean heavily towards Gary Neville’s view. Ok, City and Chelsea exploited our weaknesses during both matches but was that down to the system Emery is teaching our players, or the players themselves not being able to do what’s asked of them?
Playing the high defensive line with two slow central defenders is perhaps committing defensive suicide but as Neville said, it’s showing the manager who can and who can’t play his style of football which should end up with those players being replaced, or at least swapped for someone different. That’s where it gets tricky though because behind Sokratis and Mustafi there’s just Holding and Mavropnos until Koscielny returns later this year.
I don’t think we have too much of a problem in the attacking side of our game and had we taken just 60-70% of the clear cut opportunities we created in the opening two fixtures, I doubt our attacking style of football would be discussed at any great lengths. 100% and we could so easily be sat top of the league or somewhere very close.
I think it’s crazy to expect a manager to change his ideas after just five minutes in his new job, he’s building for the future and eventually with players of his choice, players who will play the way he wants them to. He’s not a guy who’s been at the club for a long time, or one who has the squad he chose/signed so he needs to adapt in order to justify signing them is he?
As I’ve suggested before, Arsenal isn’t a quick fix job. This is a whole new world as far as the game goes and yes there are faults right now, but surely there’s a lot of what we’ve seen to give us belief that over the months to come, we’ll improve. Well, in attack at least but once Torreira and Guendouzi form a solid midfield partnership, perhaps the defence won’t be left so exposed so they’ll have less opportunities to make schoolboy errors. I’m really not sure how Emery is going to improve Mustafi, Bellerin, Xhaka and even Sokratis because the latter isn’t going to suddenly gain pace at his age. Sven Mislintat has some serious scouting to do before January arrives because we need a bit of pace and experience in our back line. Unless Ozil and Mkhitaryan change their ways, I can’t see either lasting beyond next summer either.
Neville, dislike him as I do, makes sense imo.
Mind you, that might just be because he agrees with me, or I agree with him. Whichever eh.
Goodmorning Rico and everyone… I choose to maintain my prior stand that the Wenger men have got to go… They are mostly a shitty bunch.. Its not going to be easy for emery to take them all off but he can over time.. Arsenal should be active during the January transfer window I hope.
As for adapting I feel its essential, not just for the coaches but for the players.. I tend to surprisingly agree with Neville(cos he says shit most of the time).. Emery has his style, he needs to get the players that can play his style.. Jilttery players can’t play from the back, Mustafi and bellerin are terrible defenders, Sokratis is average.. I still stand by my top 4 prediction
Morning Mexzy, I too think there won’t be many of Wenger’s signings left in a couple of seasons time if not before. That’s not including our younger players.
Morning Rico and all. Carragher is a vile and sick scouse sputumeer. After watching some of last night’s match it seems as though Mike Riley has decided that Liverpool should be allowed to challenge Man City this season. I imagine he will also give the nod to Spurs.
Thanks rico for posting that, interesting!
At least we have something new to talk about this season, exciting times! There will be many ups and downs. But at least we have started something new.
Morning all.
Surely, a club doesn’t sign a manager to come in and do what’s failed in previous seasons.
Emery brings in his own ideas and the players either adapt, or they go.
Morning Adam. I seriously detest Carragher and everything about him. Ghastly bloke!
Dodgy penalty and a sending off wasn’t there last night?
Agree Andrew. The Wenger conversations were boring, but inevitable. I read yesterday that for the last two years at Arsenal he had a bodyguard. Suggestion was that the reaction to the loss and terrorism was the reason.
Agree Scott. Interestingly enough, I looked around google yesterday for Carraghers views on Klopp since he joined. He changed his opinion so many times about the way Liverpool played/play so it shows he really is a chump!
Rico. When I watch some of these decisions I start to believe that I must have have missed something. That was never a penalty but Salah has joined the list of those players who would prefer to get an opponent sent off to getting a penalty. If they can amalgamate the two, they are more than happy. Hazard is the president of this little, but expanding group and Zaha is also right up there. If there is even a hint of a foul against him, he will turn it into a solid free kick. Kovacic, with his outrageous dive on Saturday became a fully fledged member too. Would VAR not allow the video replay to expose these cheats and shouldn’t the refs card them immediately for it? Isn’t VAR about getting the right decision?
Yet the PL refuse to use it, despite its success in the World Cup.
Adam, as you probably know, I’m a huge fan of VAR and imo, it’s the only way forward to ensure the best chance of having a level playing field. Not only would it expose cheats in the game but the bad officiating too. Riley no doubt objects to VAR, as do the FA because it will ruin their plans.
I think we need UEFA to bring it into European football because then the FA will be under more pressure to follow suit.
I agree Rico. But, no doubt Carragher would be dead set against it as it “ruins the natural flow of the game”.
Rather like that young girls car window ruined the flow of his spit.
🙂 Adam.
Just saw the Salah penalty.
Penalty, my arse.
It was a deadset dive!!!
Is that’s required to succeed, nowadays?
Changing your mind on technology yet Scott?
It will happen, so why not just get on with VAR? If it improves things 80% its well worth it. The FAs argument wait till it’s better is stupid. Do they think that cutting out even 60% of errors is not worth it?
Typical FA really.
Rico, I like it for black and white calls, but things like dives, I’m still on the side of using that after games but I must say, it wasn’t anywhere near as bad as I thought it’d be at the WC.
Seems they already use it in a better, more efficient way than Rugby League do after 2 decades lol
I’m definitely weakening 🙂
Scott, Isn’t it fairer though for the team who the payer is cheating against gets the first benefit? Certainly if red cards are dished out as they should be for cheating.
Morning all.
Ive got a dodgy connection again. Site based I think rather than iPad failure!
VAR ? We have the worst set of referees in living memory. They need all the help they can get, so the FA reject it because it causes too much confusion? You couldn’t make it up, could you?
Nevilles largely right Carragher even when translated talks scouse bollocks! End of argument.
Nice one Rico can’t beat a bit of insult trading first thing on a Tuesday morning
Cloudy and a bit muggy here today.
Rico, that’s a fair point, but Football is a free flowing game, so we need to be careful
not to lose that.
Again, it was a lot better than I thought it’d be and I wouldn’t be upset if it were brought in, but even more, I’d love to see retrospective bans brought in for divers.
Some sides would be short ever week lol
Thanks Wavy, not sure why, there’s nothing coming up showing a problem with the site. Are you getting some kind of error message please?
Scott, it didn’t interfere with play in the World Cup. This free flowing game is exactly what’s being interrupted by players cheating, diving, conning the ref into stopping the game for free kicks… the list is endless..
Fair call.
If it cuts the cheating out, I’m for it.
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G’day Rico and all others.
I said my piece on Carragher and Neville yesterday, can’t stand either of them.
Three points, 1) Playing out from the back. on Sunday’s showing none of Cech, Mustafi or Sokratis have a clue as to what they should be doing. Work it out on the training pitch before using the system in a game.
2) VAR. I would be more in favour of it if the protocols governing it’s use could be made clearer. Who calls for it’s use? The on-field referee or some anonymous individual in a remote studio? Precisely which events are covered by VAR?
3) If someone dives and seeks to gain an advantage by cheating they should be red carded there and then. It’s of little use to the team offended against if the miscreant misses the next match, which just gives an advantage to another side.
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I see the run chase is going well, 62 for 2. Both openers out already. Just why are we persisting with Cook, every fast bowler, and his dog, in the World knows how to get him out.
Afternoon Cicero, but once you start training in such a way, surely the only way to perfect it is on the pitch against players different than your team-mates?
The training pitch is great but it’s not a ‘real’ situation..
I don’t see the benefit in playing out from from the back when under pressure.
The theory behind it is sound, but I think it puts an already fragile defence under even more pressure.
“A problem occurred with this webpage, so it was reloaded.”
Is the message they keep sending me.
62 for 4 now. Were obviously going to make a good fist of it! We’ll be all out before lunch. Another 10 wickets to fall in a session, what are the Odds?
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I agree with that Scott, Cech was s*****g himself every time he got the ball at his feet. Mustafi and Sokratis were so deep and close to the penalty box that on at least two occasions Cech couldn’t get the ball out of the area and had to try again. Farcial!
Sorry Rico, They have to get the basics right on the training ground before trying it in a match situation.
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Wavy there’s another one Root, he hasn’t played two decent innings in a match since he was made Captain.
Both Him and Cook need to go back to their counties and learn to play the game all over again.
Is it too late to be teaching a 35/36 year old keeper to be an onfield player???
Even defensive minded players usually lack the ball skills of midfielders and attackers.
It’s a definite trend around the world.
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Only nine Wavy, I can’t see Bairstow batting in a lost cause with a broken finger.
I’m not taking a shot at Emery here, by the way, as we were doing it last season as well, this playing out at all costs.
No, nor me. Bairstow Is hardly going to play a match winning innings given that we will be 9 down before we see him at the cease. Another inglorious failure!
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Only 415 runs needed now.
359 now and it’s nearly tea! Is this Stokes playing his ‘get out of jail, free’ card………could see?…..could we…….England have got as much chance of saving/winning this match as we have of winning the EPL😊
With the diving debate we have no hope whilst we have pundits spouting shit like it was a penalty “” he felt a touch and went down “”. I saw one such remark about Kovacik , apparently he went down because “” Ramsey was getting close “”.
It was better when you used to have to suffer assault and battery before a spot kick , Best , Cruyff and the like took that touch and stayed on their feet and that’s why they are regarded as football greats .
Wavy, I often get that message too but not on HH, on a few online newspapers. Strange.
That’s ok Cicero, would be a boring world if we all agreed. A peaceful one though. 😜
And Henry against Southampton albeit it was outside the box I think if my memory serves me right. He could so easily gone over, Saints down to ten men and we’d have probably battered them instead of winning 1-0..
…………201 – 4. Butler (86) and Stokes (51) showing how test match batting should be done.
Wouldn’t it be something if they can keep going to end of play tomorrow…
Who remembers Johnny Hartson having to apologise to Victor Moses after calling him a cheat on Match of the Day for diving, apologise or lose your job, a couple of season’s later and it’s an Arsenal / Chelsea Cup Final, Moses up to his old tricks again only this time he’s red carded for diving in the box…..we go on to lift the cup, Hartson has the last laugh.
I didn’t know Hartson had to apologise Micko. How ridiculous.
Great Piece to put up for debate Rico:
Believe Neville is correct with first hand experience and changing times. Players have Much Power and are fickle.
Give UE time and he will change personnel to suit his strategy.
Cheers
Is it the FA or the Premier League and PGMOL who are against VAR, I’m not sure as VAR is being used in the FACup?
Could be that there isn’t enough competent referees available to do the VAR part, if it was down to me I’d use VAR in the Premier League only, the other three divisions may have to suck it up because of the shortage of officials. Couldn’t the FA employ retired referees in the short term to fill up the shortfall?
Great post btw Rico, I’m with Gary Neville, I reckoned two years before we see progress but Neville might be right, it might be three years. What a reflection on the malaise that Wenger allowed to develop.
Thanks A117, Kev.
Good point re the VAR Kev, the PL hasn’t got any good referees let alone for behind the video. Didn’t Hackett suggest the Pmogl should start to look overseas for officials..
rico, if our referee’s want respect they’d wanna go out and buy some specs !!!
Evening all and thanks Rico, although I should take some of the thanks as I put the link up last night, so thanks to me aswell ! 😆
My thoughts on mine and Rico`s post…………………………………………..First VAR………………………..it`s inevitable and there will be more of it on all sorts of decissions. I said years ago it would happen and my thought process at the time was that the game would eventually be big in America and they would take it over, having play stopped would fit in with all big American sports where they need advertisements to be played, stopping the game for a VAR replay means McDonalds can sell a BIG MAC and TV gets there sponsors money !.
Dick !……………………….although I have said that we should hoof the ball up field in certain circumstances, I agree with Neville, Dick has been given this chance and should stick to his philosophy no matter what, it will take time and lots of it and obviously lots of money and this is where it will all fall apart because of our owner, nothing will change my opinion on that untill Kroenke invests his money…………………………..I wont hold my breath again as last time I nearly died.
A commentator has to apologise for offering an opinion??
That’s crazy but it’s the world we live in.
Interesting dialogue Rico ,
I don’t often get to hear what pundits say after matches as generally the tv is off at the final whistle. i usually watch with my son’s family and that includes my 5 year old granddaughter whose attention whilst football is on is to say the least limited. Once the players are gone she talks over everything , mind you from what I just read from Carragher she makes more sense.
I thought it was too Potter and similar to you, game over and television off. I saw this whilst browsing Sky Sports. I think like your granddaughter, my woofa would make more sense than Carragher..
Morning guys.
Morning all.
Remember that Bindipper documentry under(I think) Duck Rodgers when they had to have sub-titles for Carragher ! hahahaha
What language is he speaking, LC??
Morning all.
ScottfromOz on 21st August 2018 at 11:51 pm
A commentator has to apologise for offering an opinion??
Welcome to the world of free speech ………………………..NOT !
Your’e not allowed to say boo to a goose nowadays .
PC gone nuts.
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Crisis at United. The gift that keeps on giving!
Unhappy players. Pogba, Martial and Rashford all want out.
Unhappy manager. Poor hard done by Mourinho didn’t get the new toys he wanted in the summer transfer window.
Unhappy Executive Chairman. Woodward refused to buy the centre halves Mourinho wanted, he said they were either not good enough or too old.
Unhappy fans. Mass walk out before the end the defeat at Brighton. They don’t like the negative brand of football Mourinho is serving up.
Ex players and agents slagging each other off in public.
Is Mourinho’s third season syndrome about to be repeated? Sacked before Christmas?
All this good news has got the hacks off Arsenal’s perceived troubles.
I’m lovin’ it.
Potter, that’s it.
Heaven forbid people speak the truth else they offend lol
Maybe, if not punsits and commentators called these cheats out, it could help to stop
the epidemic it’s becoming.
Surely they have a responsibility to speak the truth when discussing games.
Ok Joe Say and Utd-was it ever going to go any other way?
This is how the man works 🙂
Morning…
Morning Rico, a good read:
https://mobile.twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/1032534955342086146
Morning Kev, I haven’t written anything yet… 😉
Morning all.
It is true, Ozil could find room in a packed tin of Sardines !
https://twitter.com/jonathanliew/status/783666657432567809?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E783666657432567809&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Farsenalarsenal.net%2F2018%2F08%2F22%2Fdrop-ozil-for-the-sake-of-the-high-press%2F
Probably more surprising than Jimmy Saville making a speech at a NSPCC convention………………………………The speed of Mustafi and Sokratis !…………………..I`m gobsmacked they are so quick !…………………all we need is for them to now be able to actually play with the ball at their feet ! 🙂
https://arseblog.news/2018/08/aubameyang-reveals-some-surprising-arsenal-sprint-test-results/
Am I right in thinking (after reading Kev`s link) that Gazidis is shit !……………………shittier than our defense was last season !……………………..and that we should hope that Milan take him off our hands !……………………over paid ?
A rubbish CEO who is under performing and letting all our rivals walk over us and an owner who has unpenetrable pockets and wallet !…………………….no wonder we are in street !
Please correct me if I have read it wrong !
Any accountant types on here ?…………………………AA was full of them and they all had different opinions !
😆
Does that link suggest they are quick then Lc?
Quicker than me hiding when someone asks whose round is it ?
If you cant read the link Rico, both are in top 5 !…………………………..Auba and Bellerin top 2 !……………………………Torriera slower than Mertesacker wearing concrete boots and pulling the Titanic !
I couldn’t get the SR article Kev posted as it just took me to Twitter.
I’ve nicked the speed table. 😉
New post up now.