Morning all.
Steve Bruce, has been quoted as saying that he wants Isaac Hayden on a permanent deal. Apparently he tried to secure such a deal back in January but Arsenal said no. Good and I hope they say the same in the summer.
Hayden is one of those players which few fans will have have seen, but are already willing to cast aside. Yet a manager who concentrates so hard on the defensive side of the game, deems Hayden good enough for his side, one which looks like it’s returning to the Premier League in May.
Similar could be said about other players out on loan too, Akpom, Toral, Zelalem, Maitland-Niles etc, hardly any, if any will be given time by the majority of Arsenal fans yet in the next breath we ask – when will the Arsenal Academy provide players like Utd did in 92, or Southampton do, or other clubs who are giving young players a chance.
Arsenal have plenty of talent coming through the Academy and they need a chance. They deserve a chance, because if they have what it takes but end up playing for another club, those same fans who weren’t willing to give them the time of day, will be slating the manager for letting them leave and play for a rival….
If Steve Bruce thinks Isaac Hayden is good enough to be part of his team in the Premier League next season, then perhaps Arsene Wenger will too and just as Iwobi is getting his chance now, others need to be given theirs in the future.
With so many players looking likely to leave in the summer, I wonder how many of those out on loan right now will make the step up and fill the holes rather than Arsene Wenger looking outside the club for solutions.
And before you throw rotten apples at my tin hat, just ask yourself one question. Who did Dele Alli play for before he joined the Totts?
In case you don’t know, it was MK Dons! He’s doing ok isn’t he……?
It’s a problem.
We, the fans, demand success which makes it damn hard to blood young guys, but then we do complain when young guys are sold before being given a chance.
There is no easy answer, though.
Morning all, and nice post, Rico.
Morning Scott and all..
It is a problem. On many blogs I read, ‘most’ fans want big money spent, yet we have so many coming through who will be cast aside should that be the way to go..
I know cream rises to the top but it must be tough for the younger ones. What irks me is AW spends a lot on buying overseas kids, yet our own don’t seem to be favoured…
Look at Hayden, is he any better or worse than Chambers I wonder….
Would he be more disciplined than Flamini in midfield or work harder than OC?
I first saw Isaac Hayden play in midfield for us against West Brom in the League Cup during the 2013-14 season. It wasn’t a “spectacular” debut by any stretch, but I was impressed by his mobility, his quality on the ball and how quickly and aggressively he’d snap into tackles. The next time I saw him was at centre back the following season, again in the League Cup, against Southampton. It wasn’t a good performance from us all around as many big names like Podolski and Rosicky failed to deliver, but Hayden again looked like a capable young player. During that season’s centre back crisis, Hayden was guaranteed to receive playing time as Koscielny was out injured, Chambers was at right back with Debuchy out injured as Bellerin hadn’t broken through yet and Gabriel hadn’t been signed yet. He was set to play, coincidentally, against Hull in October, but was injured before the game and basically missed the rest of the season. Very unfortunate as it could’ve been a massive opportunity for him. He went out on loan to Hull this season for some much needed first team football, but due to the number of established Premiership players in their midfield (Livermore, Meyler, Huddlestone and Diame), he hasn’t played as much as we might’ve hoped. I have, however, witnessed him first hand putting in some very credibile performances against Premiership sides in the League Cup (Swansea, Leicester and Man City). He has got himself into their first team more as of late and has clearly impressed Steve Bruce sufficiently. Given the fact that it took Francis Coquelin and Joel Campbell until they were 23 to break into our first team, I think 20 year old Isaac Hayden does have time on his side. There will be big changes in our midfield next season with Mikel Arteta and Mathieu Flamini both set to leave. We will probably look externally. With his home grown and “club trained” status at a time when home grown players are becoming more and more valuable, I think Hayden is well worth taking another look at. His height when compared to our other midfielders and his ability to play defensive midfield, box-to-box midfield or at centre back, could prove very useful. A number of players will be returning late for pre-season due to Euro 2016. If it was down to me, I’d give Hayden a chance to stake a claim before deciding whether to retain him, loan him out again or let him go altogether.
I’d prefer either in front of Flamini and I haven’t even seen Hayden play lol
It seems Wenger has no faith in the English players and keeps the token number to satisfy the rules.
I’ve seen a bit of him Scott and imo, he’s just as good as Flamini, without popping up in the box.. 😉
Good comment Matt. I recall him getting injured just as his chance was looking likely. I too would rather he gets a few more seasons to show he has what it takes than to be cast aside.
With Merts ageing and slowing week by week, Hayden’s chance might come sooner rather than later and with him being a midfield option too, I’d say he’d be a good player to keep…
If Bruce wants him at Hull, I strongly suspect other clubs will be interested too, just hope AW/Kroenke don’t think pounds shillings and pence instead.
Same with one or two others who are at a similar age to Hayden.
It does seem sometimes that we see the grass greener elsewhere , I have often criticised the club’s scouts for looking abroad whilst home talent gets ignored .The papers are always reporting the big names that Arsene followed for years then they got snapped up elsewhere. The list is extensive running currently from Kante through Ronaldo to Messi .. We also hear the quote as another batch of foriegn hopefuls arrive that they joined because Arsene always gives youth a chance . Well does he ? a selective few maybe . It is easy to say that players that have left have not really amounted to much but would they, had they stayed in the environment that they grew in ?. Rumours have always eminated from the club of discord between Arsene and Brady , Terry Burton etc people that have seen the youngsters grow from 10 years old and who have said that they were ready for the next step only to see them discarded.Now we have a Dutch group in charge , perhaps they might have better luck.
Good post Matt.
Well said Potter.
Afobe, Aneke, Lansbury – all had it imo, but before getting a proper chance, were written off. And I agree re AW playing youth, I don’t think he truly does. Bellerin got his chance by fluke when Debuchy suffered injury and lucky for us, he’s taken it with both hands which makes me wonder how many others might have had they had a lucky break…
Interesting post Rico and Good Morning to you…
A very good friend of mine, harbours serious doubts about the long term prospects of Calum Chambers…
Put frankly, he thinks that Chambers isn’t ‘up to it’ and is an ‘accident waiting to happen’…
All that for £16 million!!!
Personally I’m prepared to give him more time, and I have to say, circumstances accepted, that on Chambers’ last two appearances, to me, he did ok…
Chambers can play centre-midfield, right-back and centre-back. To what standard is a moot point, it depends on how you view him…
Isaac Hayden can play centre-back and centre-midfield. I don’t know if he can play full-back, but I imagine that he could in an emergency…
Now I’ve seen a lot more of Chambers than I have of Hayden, but I have to say, from what I’ve seen, there isn’t a lot, if anything, to choose between them…
The major difference is that the manager backed his judgement and spent £16m on one whilst the other came through the Academy and can be jettisoned without his reputation being sullied…
I would like to see Hahden retained as I can see another late developer in him, another Coquelin, an Engljsh player to boot and one of our own kids – and that still can mean something in terms of club loyalty…
Arsenal problem, this season it’s not scored goals.
I’ haven’t an opinion about Haydn,
Just seen your 10.02 Rico, snap…
Good comments Matt, and I concur with your opinions on Hayden.
I also saw both games and given Hayden’s inexperience at senior level, I didn’t think he did a lot wrong…
Morning Kev.
Couldn’t agree more really re Chambers. I think he’ll be good in the future but £16 million should get a player whose ready now imo…
No wonder AW was keen to pay £5m for Elneny…
Great minds Kev, or dull……… 😉
Chelsea linked to OC apparently….
Ox is not fit, has a bad season but it’s the only player to put speed in the game.
There’s Theo Jm… 😉
Good Morning to The Lady of the House and all fellow Gooners in residence.
Great article Rico.
The conundrum is that these young players need some time and experience in the first team to show if they have what it takes.That requires Arsene being willing to take a risk and for him and the supporters to show some patience. Some get their chance through circumstance when one or more of our regular players are injured and we Arsene has little or no choice but to play them. Some rise to the occasion and some don’t, at least not right away (e.g. Joel Campbell).
As for patience, look at the debates from previous seasons about the likes of Campbell and Scott’s favourite, Aaron Ramsey. There are no clear answers and Arsene does get a much better opportunity to see these players up close. Some initially show promise coming through the Academy but fail to develop emotionally, mentally, physically and or technically and fall at the final hurdle. It’s a crap shoot where some of the risks pay off and some don’t. You never know until the players are given opportunities to show what they have under fire.
Morning Cg.
I don’t think fans will be patient, some yes, but the majority imo would rather the club sign ready made players…
Luck can play a huge part in a players development and 1sr team prospects…
Bellerin and Debuchy is the obvious case in point…
Hectors Spanish compadre, Jon Toral, has had a series of injuries himself, thus he is probably at a stage where Hector was 18 months ago…
Will the departures of Rosicky, Flamini and Arteta be the lucky break that Toral needs?
Frimpong and Afobe were both top prospects, Barcelona were apparently trying to lure Benik to Spain when he was a young teenager.
Serious injuries ravaged both Afobes and Frimpongs careers, cruciate ligaments etc, otherwise they could both be where Coq is now?
So it isn’t always clear, and the fickle hand of fate can make or break the most promising of careers…
Just ask Bobby Harding, who at one time was the next Charlie George quality youngster in 1972, before he was forced to retire through injury…
Kev, have you heard from Fred recently? Not seen him here for months…
Funny you should mention Fred, I was only thinking about him yesterday…
I’ll drop him an email and how he is…
Agree with all of the above concerning our youngsters, they don’t get enough playing time alongside the seniors in competitive games.
In the past we used to blood them in Milk Cup games! What’s more they had several games to show their progress but just lately we have been eliminated in the early rounds so development failed in this area!
Loaning them out has had mixed results. I mean is Tony Pubis right about Gnarbry and we are all wrong? Hayden, Akpom, Toral? Have they made progress or have they found their natural level? Many of our ‘juniors’ have had long and fruitful careers at a lower league club, some even in the EPL, Larsson for example, but mostly when sold they rarely touch the dizzy heights, exceptions like Andy Cole are a real rarity.
The judgement of ability is a highly subjective one. Quite simply if a face fits he is persevered with, given time, given poor performances still Wenger picks him until the player blossoms (or not)! No guesses as to whom I am referring! But……. He’s still with us and every now and then he plays outstandingly well! So he keeps on getting his pick. However, only one or two will ever make the grade. All the trainees are exceptional players, when first spotted and signed up as with all things a few will just keep on getting better, the really outstanding will be first team regulars before their 19th birthdays, one or two will develop more slowly, eg. Campbell, Le Coq. The rest of the promising band of brothers are put out to pasture sold on or just dumped! Devastating for them but if you’re not good enough, you know you’re not what else is the likely outcome?
We judge them mostly from the armchairs of our fireside chairs! Not day to day, not as team mates or mates even. Wenger and his happy band of career makers and breakers ‘know’ what to look for, what to expect, what makes a really talented player and what does not. They make the calls we only see a very small snapshot of what goes on.
As Potter said finding and playing kids is a conundrum wrapped up in an enigma and more than a little luck!
Morning all. Bloody cold here, fireside chair for me and the blazing log burner!
Sorry the conundrum was posted by CG.
I was thinking of doing the same Kev. Hope he’s ok…
Re Flamini, Arteta and Rosicky going – perhaps not only Toral will get his break. Maitland-Niles is another, he’s been getting rave reviews….
Rico – Unfortunately, I think you are right, but it wont stop some of those same grumbling when one of our young prospects is released or sold. You can’t have it both ways.
I have to say that Arsene will give the young players a chance. Maybe not as many as say the likes of Sotton, but they don’t have as much choice in the matter. However, a young player stands more of a chance with Arsenal than he does with the likes of Chelski or Abu Dhabi Citeh, both black holes for promising young ‘English/home grown’ players.
Wavy, I think you make a very good point re ‘face fits’ – even going back to someone like David Bentley who clearly had the wrong look for AW.. Fran Merida is another who springs to mind, a player who appeared to have a lot of potential but cast aside, same with Lansbury.
As Potter said earlier, some may not have reached dizzy heights but perhaps they would have raised their game when surrounded by quality players…
Cg – agree again but I guess fans want success and today rather than tomorrow….
Perhaps if 2/3 of the younger English players get a chance next season, AW could get rid of the few English who can’t be bothered to pull their weight…
I don’t think it helps having not won the PL for so long. Had we won it in the last couple of years, maybe youngsters would get more of a chance…
Email sent Rico…
Yeah, Maitland-Niles had just gone through that classic stage that most young players go through…
He started the season, flying for Ipswich, became almost their star man.
But since the New Year, Ipswich’s firm has dipped and so has Maitland-Niles’…
The Tractor fans were starting to get on AMN’s back, to such a degree that manager Mick McCarthy left him out of the side. Not because of his form but to take him away from the fans’ criticism…
A decision that McCarthy complained about in the Press, in a thinly veiled dig at his own fans…
I still think that AMN has a good chance of making it at Arsenal. His experience at Ipswich, both the good and the bad, will be all a part of him maturing into an EPL player, if he has what it takes…
Afternoon, not seen these players play much, but i believe players find their own level eventually, I dont think theres many young players AW let go have gone on to give him any regrets or sleepless nights, so in that respect maybe Wengers judgement has been spot on,
And on the AMN situation, if I recall, the fans and some on the coaching staff at Watford were pretty underwhelmed by Bellerin when he spent a period on loan at Vicarage Road…
Shows what they know?
No rico, Ox leads the ball from back to front; TW, only play, when play something, in the last third of the field.
I was a big believer in “if you aren’t in-and-around the first team at 17/ 18, you probably never will be”, because this actually was the case back then. You’d get players like Fabregas, Gibbs and Wilshere breaking through at around that age, whilst others would get a cup game or two and disappear. Even Coquelin initially broke into the team at 18 during the 2011/12 season, but didn’t establish himself until years later. This wasn’t always Wenger’s fault though. I felt Frimpong was given a better chance than most but failed to deliver, and struggled with injury. Apparently he was keen on keeping both Lansbury and Kyle Bartley as well, but neither of them wanted to go out on loan again, which is a shame. Afobe was unfortunate but, as many have said, injuries played their part. Coquelin and Campbell are living proof that this just isn’t the case anymore. Players might take time to develop. Look at Harry Kane, and Ryan Mason last season. Kane was in his early 20s when he broke through, and Mason was 23. I know Mason has struggled with injury this season, but last season he was great. The reason Isaac Hayden, and Chuba Akpom, are still here at 20, despite other highly rated youngsters in their age group like Brandon Ormonde-Ottewill and Jack Jebb having moved on, is because of their talent and potential. Somebody at the club rates them. If retained, I believe over the next year or two they could become valuable squad players at the very least. They could be our “Kane & Mason”.
Re: Calum Chambers. You look at the great Premiership sides and they’ve always had a versatile utility man. Man United have had Phil Neville, John O’Shea and, more recently, Phil Jones, and Chelsea have had Branislav Ivanovic. Chambers can be our utility man. I rate centre back as Chambers’ best position, but the fact he can also play right back and in midfield, and rarely gets injured, is vital towards the 25 man squad. Chambers started off the 2014-15 season with some great performances, but after his slaughtering at the hands of Swansea in December 2014, we’ve hardly seen him and I feel many have forgotten about his initial promise. He has made a number of credible appearances this season in three different positions. I’m confident in years to come £16 million will look like a bargain.
Jon Toral has been the most impressive of our loanees this season and, similar to Hayden with Arteta and Flamini departing, Rosicky departing could open things up for him. After his successful loan I feel he has earned at least a one year extension and another look. Ainsley Maitland-Niles had a great first half to the season but has really fallen out of favour recently. Nevertheless, it is still impressive for an 18 year old. He is another one with a great future ahead of him.
David Bentley is a player that sticks in my mind as one showing that early promise, but the early publicity seemed to go to his head. After that, he never seemed to be able to deliver and seemed to lack the confidence or tenacity to fight for his career. He retired young, but still fit and healthy, before his career had barely started.
I remember reading an interview with him just after he announced his retirement. It was obvious that he lacked the mentality to fight for a place once that initial glow faded. Another sad waste of talent.
Wellington Silva is an interesting player…
I pretty much thought that he was ‘on his bike’, but he’s gone to a struggling Bolton and quickly become a fans favourite up there with a string of impressive displays…
He has pace to burn and is full of trickery, another Campbell perhaps?
Kev, must be difficult for a loan player when the rest of the team dip in form, he’s bound to be one of the first picked on. Similar happened to Jenks at West Ham I think, yet not long ago he was one of their favs…
Talking of Jenks, he’s another whose Arsenal career is in the balance….
You let me know please if you get a reply?
Was joking really Jm. Agree re Ox but like Walcott, he runs with the ball but all too often loses it or his final pass let’s him down, as does his defending…
Interesting you mention Jack Jebb Matt. He was touted as being the bees knees, I wonder if he had a bit of an attitude problem?
Chambers at CB for me too and he needs to stop tugging players back or shoving them over and getting booked…
Rico – It will be interesting to see who, if any, of the Young Guns step-up to take the places of Arteta, Flamoney and Rosicky. It is doubtful imho that any of those three will be regulars or even in the team at all next season.
Re: Fred, I will Rico…
Interesting situation with Jenkinson I think Rico…
Yeah, he was previously a fans favourite, but wasn’t that under Allardyce?
Bilic didn’t seem to rate him as much and soon sidelined him.
I sti think he has enough in him to be another like Gibbs and understudy Bellerin.
At least for next season…
Cg – all three are out of contract so will be gone. Arteta is retiring apparently, Flamini has been told he won’t be getting another contract according to the papers and Tomas, well my guess is he could retire too…
Thanks Kev.
I guess Jenks is too defensive for Bilic… 😉
Perhaps Big Sam will take him to Sunderland. I can’t see him coming back tbh, not to play second fiddle to Hector… Then again, anything to save money I guess… lol
Today we feature Bobby Harding who joined the club in September 1980, making his debut against Wycombe Wanderers, in a match played at Epping Town’s Stonard Hill ground as our Sportcentre ground was unavailable.
Harding started his career at Arsenal and was a member of the England Youth squad in season 1970-71. He remained with the Gunners’ until the end of the 1974-75 season, although he never managed to break into the first team. However, he was a non-playing substitute in Arsenal’s European Cup quarter final against Ajax in 1972. Injury cut short his professional career and he went on to play for Ilford and then Enfield, from who he joined the club.
Harding was a tremendously popular player who scored his fair share of goals from the wing, often in a poor Harlow side. After the club’s relegation in 1981-82 he remained with the club and his experience was used to great effect as the young side won promotion at the first attempt. On a personal note I can remember talking with Bobby after our relegation and he made me a promise that he would help get us promoted the next season and it was therefore very fitting that it was Harding’s solitary goal at Hampton that finally clinched our promotion the following April.
Bobby stayed with the club for a further two seasons before moving on to local rivals Bishop’s Stortford in March 1985. He later had a spell with Hendon before going into management with Essex Intermediate League outfit Ongar Town. He has since been assistant manager at Tilbury before taking over as manager of Witham Town.
In total Bobby made 165 appearances for the club, scoring 47 goals.
Good Afternoon Lovelies and Hunkies
Interesting post Boss.
Kev, good points in your posts. Interestingly I also said that Toral and Iwobi will take the place of MF, MA and TR, with AW buying another midfielder like Wanyama or Brozovic. Maybe that was the real reason that AW wanted TR to sign another contract and also extended MA’s contract and let MF run his down. He wanted Toral to get a year on loan and fair enough he has grasped it with both hands. Hayden is doing well which is good. And imo Jenks will come back next year. Maybe that is why AW has allowed MD to leave knowing full well that he has cover in the form of Chambers for the remainder of this year.
So expect AW to buy maybe only one, at a long stretch two players. But it will be the old faces of Jenks and Toral who will come back. He will get to see them during pre-season together with Iwobi who will play a good part next season.
Hi all
I think the key regarding the majority of highly touted youngsters thst have left is that they never seem to prove us wrong. In my opinion this proves the club right. The likes of Lansbury, JET, etc have not even thrived the lower leagues and Kyle Bartley can’t get into a poor Swansea team.
Just read that Usmanov is interested in Everton. If yes….heaven help us. As he will be mad to get one over Kroenke and the board.
Sanogo has scored for Charlton! He just couldn’t get out of the way in time!!?
New faces next year? Not many that’s for sure. We’ll get the same old lines, “I sink we’ve got enuff.” Or, “if you can find me better than what we have and they are available, zen wee will try”.
Or, I’m not paying tat mate or you’re havin’ a larf!
Devil, I think you’ve got it spot on strategy, personnel and timing! The only unknown or variables will be which of the ‘junior’ players he identifies as keepers!?
Bob, what you have just said points to one thing though. That the scouts and coaches in our academy do not understand anything at all about players technical and tactical abilities. Do you honestly think that a club of our stature should have a lot of players like Bartley etc who cannot even get into poor teams, while clubs such as Barca etc seem to produce them at will???
What the hell were they doing at the academy??
Hopefully Jonker manages to sort this out.
This points towards the question…..why dont we buy a club somewhere around Europe, like Spain for example (a low tier club) and begin sending our players there?? And stop at the segunda division. We need not get promoted to the Primera liga but it will be enough to see the youngsters perform. And always use that club to play under 21 players and those getting back from injury.
Afternoon guys. Trust Sanogo to score against my local team. Hope he doesn’t get a hat-trick….
Devil, isn’t it an Iranian who wants to buy Everton?
Usmanovs comments yesterday would suggest he’s sticking with Arsenal. I just wish he throw some major money towards Kroenke. Enough for the American to sell…
Come on Norwich, if we get get a late winner, so can you….. Lol
And he got his hat-trick.
He is like London buses. You wait a long time then three arrive.
Reading are leading Rico
Leicester won and it’s a big step for win the League
Darn. Both Chelsea and Leicester get late winners…
I know Devil… Lol
The Iranian has bought 49.9% of Everton. Another club who’ll be spending in the summer…
Iranian Moshiri is a former Arsenal shareholder and will acquire 49.9% of Everton, subject to the Premier League approving his investment….
Catch up tomorrow guys…
Iranian Moshiri is a former Arsenal shareholder
Which is why Usmanov bought him out earlier this week
AW should send every player he wants to improve to Charlton. They did it with Coquelin while it seems that SaNoGo has caught the bug.
The ballun d’or is his to loose now. 😉
Watford improved Bellerin, Bolton improved Jack, Charlton have improved Coquelin. Maybe they do the same with Sanogo???
Why doesn’t AW make an agreement with these clubs so that he can send more of the young ones there???
My granny could score against Reading and I got no reason to lie !
As for Isaac Hayden, another one just passing through on the Arsenal conveyor belt of life.
So Leicester go 5 points clear, ask Arsene if we’re gonna win the league this season and he’ll probably tell ya he’s signed up to the Official Secret’s Act, if you don’t believe me ask tsgh……..nite Gooners.
Morning….
Morning Rico and all.
Morning Adam. Nippy one…
Morning guys.
Big one today!!
Overcast here Rico with a hint of a chill in the air.
Morning Scott. Agree…
Very cold here Adam, bit of the white stuff a possibility…
Air conditioning just turned off here.
Seems the last 4-5 months has been evenly split between stinking hot and pelting down rain.
Either way, it adds up to unbearable humidity.
After Utd, who else have we go near the top?
Spuds, of course…..is it a fair run in apart from these two?
Everton away Scott. That’s a tough one…
West Ham and Man City away for us too…
Home or away mean nothing with this team. Depends which side turns up. We can loose against anyone at home if we play badly and we can run rings around even the best side.
Good morning lovelies and hunkies.
Seems that blogs are awash with supporters wanting AW to sell the Ox and replace him with Iwobi. Imo, it should be better if the Ox is kept and Theo is sold. Granted, if we sold Theo and Ox and replaced them with Barkeley and Iwobi I would prefer it. But out of the Ox and Theo I prefer the Ox to stay
I know that some will say that he’s trouble but Berahino’s movement for West Brom yesterday was 10 times better than anything I have seen from an Arsenal midfielder of late.
Devil, you know AW won’t sell either as they are English… 😉
Everton won’t sell us Barkley imo either, especially now they are a new investor. I’d imagine they’ll be building rather than selling.
In any case, what would he cost? £50 million?
New post up now…