Morning all.
Michael Oliver and VAR are once again the talking point. The sending off of Gabriel Martinelli seemed wrong in my opinion. How can a ref play an advantage, stop play for a further foul and then dish out two bookings to the same player? It’s probably written in the rules somewhere, but I think it’s wrong. Give the second foul and the yellow card, but two? Bonkers.
Bruno Lage wasn’t happy about our goal as he felt Alex Lacazette fouled the Wolves keeper just before Gabriel scored, nor was he happy about the goal his team scored, or rather, Granit Xhaka scored, being disallowed for offside. Wolves were the better team he said and deserved to win.
Well, what a team deserved and what they get are often two different things. I don’t think Arsenal deserve all the yellow and red cards they get and I certainly believe other club’s players deserve to have picked up more and that’s just in the matches against us.
Honestly, I didn’t think Arsenal would come away from the West Midlands with anything but thanks to Gabriel’s goal and another excellent performance by Aaron Ramsdale, all three points were secured. Once again though, we could, and probably should have scored more than the one we did. Alex Lacazette had a great opportunity after Bukayo Saka had weaved his way past a number of Wolves players and playing an inch perfect ball into the Frenchman’s path. It was almost identical to the chance Lacazette buried in an earlier game this season but this time, his shot went straight to the Wolves keeper.
Down to ten men and with 20 minutes left on the clock, Mike Arteta made changes. One of which was Bukayo Saka going off for Rob Holding and the latter was superb. He stopped anything and everything he could get his boot or head to. So much so, Mikel Arteta believes that it was his defensive work which won his team the game. Nine clearances, three duels won, one interception and a goal-bound effort blocked..
Today he deserves a lot of credit. He was on the bench, he was ready to help. His attitude, his commitment to the team whether he plays every week or plays one minute, it’s incredibly good. He’s a really good influence for the rest. Today he really helped the team, the way he defended the box made a huge difference. Thanks to him we won the game.
High praise indeed from Arteta. That’s what any manager wants from him substitutes. Players who make a difference once they step over the white line. Rob Holding clearly did just that. To be fair though, the group as a whole did well to secure all three points in the end. It might not have been pretty at times but who honestly cares when we’re away from home, playing with ten men for the last 30 minutes and against a tough opponent?
In a week when Utd dropped two points, Totts and of course Wolves, dropped 3, Arsenal have taken advantage.
Lastly, good luck to the Arsenal women for tonight as they take on Chelsea. Like the men, they need points, lots of them.
See you in the comments.
Morning Rico. Lage obviously hasn’t seen the incident. Laca got to the ball first and then the goalie threw himself at him and wiped him out. In slo-mo it’s very clear. At one point the GK is in mid air and parallel to the ground knocking Laca over him. In fact it should have been a penalty had Gabriel not poked it home. To the letter of the law, it would have been a pen and a red card but that would never have happened as we all know. The subsequent goal always seems to wash everything just prior out as irrelevant.
A great result. I’ll take scrappy goals and 3 points all day long. Wolves away is a very tricky fixture.
Oliver made a bit of a fool of himself. Generally he is one of the better refs, but he decided to up the anti on the game, Mike Riley style.
But we need to stop playing games with 10 men.
Interesting perspective from Untold :- . The first foul occurred before the ball came back into play from the throw-in, so the referee must punish the foul at that point. There can be no question of advantage here because the ball was out of play when the offence was committed.
These comments should only raise the need for discussion on the refereeing situation but I wouldn’t hold your breath.
@Adam completely agree. The goalkeeper fouls Lacazette. If the goal isn’t scored it should have been a pen. Unlikely to have been given though…
Maybe Arsenal should appeal the red card?
And yes, I completely agree Adam regarding the goalkeeper, maybe that’s why when it went to VAR they couldn’t disallow it even if they wanted to?
Rico. Agreed. Lage should know that, if an Arsenal goal can be ruled out by VAR, it will be.
As an incidental observation to the red card. I couldn’t help but notice how infuriated Oliver was with Martinelli. He was red in the face and angry and he made that decision in anger. I believe that Untold are right in this case too.
Morning Rico all
According to a radio station in Aus the ref can issue 2 yellow cards to the same player in a short time like what happened to Martinelli but they normal only issue a warning for for one and a yellow card for the second, and also according to the ref they were interviewing if Arsenal didn’t score when they did then VAR would have given a penalty to Laca as the keeper was not in full control.
Personally I don’t know why would you strike a player throwing in the ball and then within seconds run straight into another players back is asking for trouble.
Geoff. You could see that Martinelli was also angry because he hadn’t got the foul. Like Oliver, who was pissed because he took Martinelli’s actions personally.
It’s a game of passions but both refs and players need to keep them in check. Oliver had been fairly lax up until then, especially with Cedric. If he hadn’t then the Wolves LB could have gone red quite early. But in that moment he lost it.
Morning Adam, Geoff, all.
Untold have got it right as to be fair, they usually do. Really disappointed that one of the few half decent referees in the PL has changed his ways. Totally understand why Arteta was cheesed off after the game. Made the result even more satisfying.
For our goal, there could have, or rather should have been, a penalty on Saka as a Wolves player was all over him.
Guys, you are full of adages today. 🙂
Cicero: “One goal, a clean sheet, three points, one sent off. Just a normal day at the office”
Adam: “if an Arsenal goal can be ruled out by VAR, it will be.”
I disagree with my namesake Pete, as I would rather see a 4:4 than to take scrappy goals and 3 points all day long, but as Rico properly observed, I’m hard to please. (As a matter of fact I’m hard to displease too, that’s how laid back I am nowadays.)
I wasn’t expecting a penalty would Gabriel fail to score. Not because I know the rules any different, but I didn’t see them on the cards yesterday. Agree with Rico’s post, the double yellow was harsh, as the goal of the yellow card is in fact a ‘last warning’, which couldn’t have his purpose this way. And while I can imagine a series of faults where this double yellow + red could apply, I didn’t see Martinelli’s case to be that severe.
Anyway, we are accustomed to play with 10 against 11, so I wasn’t afraid about not being able to keep the lead. It’s kind of a silver lining: if the refs keep applying double standards and issue red cards to Arsenal players on a regular basis then we are at least more and more experienced to play with a man disadvantage. 🙂
Good day all.
Martinelli “attempted” to delay the throw-in but failed to do so. Was that worthy of a caution, on it’s own, or was it a totting up punishment? Either way VAR cannot get involved unless they thought the ref had made a clear and obvious error. Personally I think Oliver made the right call to play advantage, having the option to return to the offence at the next break in play. The second foul was clearly a yellow card offence regardless of the previous incident. Martinelli was quite rightly sent off for two cautions.
It May seem harsh what happened to Martinelli but if it was the other way around we would have been calling for there player to be given a red card, Ok Martinelli may have been pissed off with the player throwing the ball, but then to run straight into the back of another player is no excuse yet if Xhaka done the same thing fans would be calling for him to be dropped and sold.
Martinelli only gets a one match ban doesn’t he?
Pepe will get a start against Brentford I guess.
Geoff. Personally I wouldn’t have been pleased at that outcome because we know how difficult our strikerless team struggle to score against 10 men. And I’m not convinced about your point re Xhaka. Last night’s red was a once-in-a-generation incident and there seems to a doubt as to its legality within the rules too.
Like the double-jeopardy rule that was amended. Only one player, to my knowledge, has failed to have that revision applied. We all know who that was.
Afternoon. Yes rico, two yellows will be a one match ban. Unless they make up a new rule of an extra game because two cards in five seconds!! That’s why Arsenal can’t appeal isn’t it, only against straight reds?
Hi Rico.. Nice one!
Ramsdale made some fantastic saves – only Ederson has kept more clean sheets.
I honestly thought we were done for after the red card – pleasantly surprised we hung on. Huge 3 points – we’re still in the mix!
How many of our players have yet to see red? Can’t be many.. we really need to sort this out, will end up costing us big time..
Gabi out for Brentford – it could’ve been worse I guess. You never know we may score more than once 🤣 Stranger things have happened!
Rico.. have you got the Arsenal app on your phone? If so, do you take part in the match predictor?
I think you’re right Andrew re appealing.
Adam, Gallagher said Oliver got it right, surprise surprise eh.
Hi Sue, no on both accounts re the App. I dare not start. Lol
Goodness only knows how the players/Arteta sort the red cards out other than knobbly the refs.
1.06 Geoff, have to disagree. There’s a huge difference between the two players and the incident last night compared to Xhaka.
It’s good fun, Rico. Over the years have you ever held predictions on here?
That was a good half.. Viv unlucky hitting the post
No, haven’t tried that Sue. Wouldn’t know where to start.
Think we got away with a penalty..
All I’m saying is Martinelli gets red card fans stick up for him yet Xhaka gets red card fans want him sacked, I admit Martinelli red was harsh but it was in the rules, our players have to get smart or we are going to collect more red cards
Fully agreed, Geoff.
There were, are and always will be double standards among fans, and a bunch of players that are the receiving end of the stick.
I see Xhaka, Pepe, Cedric and Leno standing in the line for all the “get this clown out of my club” tweets, if they do anything out of the ordinary, with the favorites (Ramsdale, Saka, White, Tierney, ESR, Tomi) often being supported or accepted for the same stuff.
Geoff, it’s different. Compare the numbers. It was the same for Partey and Gabriel a couple of weeks back. Stupid yes, but neither are getting sent off on a regular basis.
Disagree again Pbarany. I don’t think fans form an opinion overnight, I can only speak for what goes on on HH, but I don’t think a player’s name dictates whether he’s criticised or praised.
What he did was rather silly but Martinelli was the last player I expected to see red. As for Xhaka, you expect it, with all the shirt tugs, lunges, fouls.. I’m always on tenterhooks with him!
Hi all, my question is why aren’t players booked for blocking a quick free kick?
I see it as by the rules as it’s two separate incidences and no rule says stop play for the one, give a card and continue. However, ref’s are usually not so harsh especially after already giving a yellow card, they would warn the player he’s on his last warning.
Ditto Sue, and there’s the difference imo.
If Martinelli was getting sent off every few matches then yes, there would be cause for concern.
It’s Arsenal though Brad..
Goalkeeper is a unique position , as a player you can’t fill in elsewhere.
Whether Leno is to leave is up to Leno . I think Ramsdale is better for the team but I still see Leno as a good keeper and certainly does not qualify as a clown and I fully understand his desire for being number one somewhere.
Cedric came as a squad player in most peoples eyes albeit possibly not in his and he is what he is, a decent back up that can play either side and although not exiting is the type of player for the first 16 , not necessarily the the first eleven .
Should he go he will need replacing with a carbon copy
Pepe is unfortunate , He came with a big price tag and the weight of expectation on his back and found that within seconds Saka, Smith Rowe and Martinelli emerged and he too became a squad player.
Xhaka however is different and certainly it seems that Arteta sees a whole set of advantages with him that very few of the fans do . He is a serial foul up waiting to happen and doesn’t seem to have the humility to admit his mistakes and at Arsenal there have been many . He is prone to causing more problems than he solves and although Arteta loves him most fans see things from another angle .
If you want a clown to remove , this is your target .
The others are all good fotballers that do not merit being first pick . Xhaka is however seemingly first pick that many don’t even see as worthy of a squad position .
The thing with Martinelli is that it is the first time and with mitigating circumstances . Time will tell if he becomes a serial offender .
Just as a comparison Xhaka in his Arsenal career has been yellow carded by percentage more often than Vieira and red carded at a very similar rate .
It in his defence though it would be hard to make a case for his leadership value being anywhere near the same.
When Cedric signed I was pleased, perhaps because Bellerin was going through a bad time. Imo, he was always in the same bracket as Mari, good and reliable defenders just not fancy etc. Similar can be said of Elneny but as you said Potter, squad players like these are a necessity. We’re not like City and Chelsea who can have have 2 top class players for every position so the void either gets filled by these type of players or youth.
An understudy, for the want of a better expression, is a great player who believes he should be starting, but isn’t, won’t hang around for long imo.
Imo though, if Cedric goes, he’s unlikely to be replaced if Saliba does return.
Didn’t we just sign another goal keeper from America, and if so I can see why Leno would want to leave. Leno could easily make it at another club but Unfortunately he had a few bad games which gave Ramsdale a chance and he made the most of it and hasn’t looked back. I would also go as far as saying that Ramsdale could easily be one of our best players this season.
Thanks Potter for the detailed answer.
I wasn’t making a stand that Leno is as good as Ramsdale (but IMO the difference is far less than many think), or Cedric should squeeze out Tomiyasu. (As a matter of fact I believe that statistic-wise Pepe is no worse than Saka, the reasons of the – often subconscious – bias in favor of Bukayo is the price tag difference, his young age – and subsequent promise of further development and the academy background; I see no difference between the effectiveness of their play.)
My point is that due to the incompetent bastards involved in live game commentaries, and useless pundits tearing into players there seem to be a ‘common knowledge’ among many fans that Xhaka is useless, employing Cedric is burning money and Pepe was the worst transfer in Arsenal history.
That’s not a big problem, everyone entitled to their own opinion, I can be often wrong. The problem starts when the same display results vastly different reactions. If Leno shouts “he is yelling at his teammates”, when Ramsdale does that “he demonstrates leadership by communication”. When Saka loses the ball the most on the pitch “at least he was trying to do something”, when Pepe gets dispossessed for a few dribbles “he is predictable and inefficient”.
Let me bring a few quotes from player ratings:
Cedric:
He has come under fire in recent weeks, but the right-back actually had one of his best games. Solid in defence and neat and tidy going forward. – 8
First league appearance since August and should be pleased with his night’s work. Sent over one excellent cross after 25 minutes that Lacazette should have got his head on. – 7.5
Struggled at times with the flair of Wolves’ wingers, though he didn’t make any glaring mistakes that led to a big opportunity being created. – 6
Lacazette:
The 30-year-old was isolated for most of the first half, but he used the ball astutely when he did have possession, getting a vital assist for Gabriel to finish. Should have scored shortly after Martinelli’s sending off. – 7
Flop of the match. Alex had a great chance to put the game beyond Wolves but missed. He also missed a big chance vs. Burnley that cost Arsenal points. Needs to improve if Arsenal are to finish top four. – 4
On a night where he needed to prove he was ready to lead the line for Arsenal for the remainder of the season the Frenchman was woefully lacking missing three huge chances. Makes you wonder how often we’ll be writing the same thing between now and May. – 4
Xhaka:
A good performance from Xhaka, whose influence in the game’s final phase immensely helped the team. Often popped up at left-back to help Tierney deal with the attacks, and barring a silly yellow card challenge in the first half, the Swiss midfielder was good overall. – 7
Back in team after suspension and picked up the inevitable booking just before break. One vital header that denied Saiss a free header at goal. Turned ball into own net late on but Jimenez was offside. – 7
A very silly booking late in the first half, but I thought he defended really well this evening. 4 clearances in total and one superb first half header to prevent a Wolves chance. – 7.5
Was largely outshone by Ruben Neves, who was the best midfielder on the pitch for either side. – 5
Geoff I don’t think there was any idea by the club that signing Ramsdale was as back up to Leno I think that Ramsdale was always seen as the eventual No.1, it was just a case of when he got the nod in front of the German and losing three games on the spin at the start of the season was exactly the reason Arteta needed to make changes without causing too many waves. Leno has been the ultimate professional since and I hope he gets a great move to a good club and has a great career – and we get a decent fee for him…
Rico, it’s fine to disagree – especially on this blog where it is the motto – but I’m quite positive that many fans has their own ‘player rating’ without even watching the game. Cognitive bias is quite a common phenomenon, and Arsenal fans don’t have immunity either.
On Xhaka’s defense: in his 6 year at the club he was sent off 4 time in PL-games.
https://www.premierleague.com/players/12136/Granit-Xhaka/stats
That looks as one red in 1.5 season, but we have more precise statistics, so if it took him 172 games and 14.278 minutes that means 1 red card per 43 games or 3570 minutes.
If we compare it with Gabriel Martinelli, the Brazilian played also 43 league games – so that seems equal, but his minutes statistic is worse: he played only 2181 PL-minutes before being sent off. And he is a forward/winger which is a more peaceful position than a defensive midfielder.
Or if we take a look at the other Gabriel’s statistics, you’ll be surprised. Magalhães in fact played only 42 games for the club in the PL, and during his 3654 minutes he was given the marching orders TWICE. Yet nobody thinks he is a liability. Because he isn’t. And neither is Granit. But it’s more difficult to realize in the midst of the anti-Xhaka narrative coming from (almost) everywhere.
The stats might help your case but if you include yellow cards and fouls in dangerous positions, Xhaka would win those hands down.
He’s too slow to be the defensive mid, last ditch will always have him coming second so he has to use his hands to try get an advantage, hence the shirt tugs.
I think Xhaka has/ had the worst attitude and this was as the Captain and for me needed to leave a long time ago.
Totally agree where bang average crosses to no man’s land are lauded and others are lambasted for trying to make something happen.
Players who leave their man and bad positioning but the scape goat gets blamed for not tackling 2 men.
Good point, Kev. I believe Leno is getting a good move and a fine career, but come on, mate, we will never get a decent fee for anyone, especially for somebody know to looking for a transfer.
I beg to differ on Xhaka being a liability. How many penalties has he given away on top the cards, reckless lunges, needless fouls etc – no wonder AW told him to stop tackling!
Time and time again we’ve seen all our hard work undone by one of his rash moments. His decision making is rather poor. Tbh, after 5 (or is it 6?) years I’ve seen enough. We need to move on from him to really push forward. Jose, are you listening?
You are spot on yellow cards, Bradley. Both Gabriels ‘earned’ 5 each, while Xhaka 46 (in only 4 times as many minutes). Yet, being (yellow) card prone is not a major liability, at least not at central/defensive midfield. Look Partey, who earned 9 yellow cards in 2953 PL-minutes. That’s about one fifth of Xhaka’s tally in one fifth of his minutes. And while Thomas is (unfortunately) not the model midfielder whose path we want all our players to follow, nobody complained about his yellow card frequency. Why? Because he is not Xhaka. If Elneny or Lokonga gets booked that’s his job to break up dangerous attacks; when Granit does that he commits reckless and cynical faults that are unbecoming to an Arsenal player.
We disagree on Xhaka’s attitude, though. He is most likely the best leader in my opinion. He is the captain of the Swiss team, which might have been a joke a decade ago, but they belong to the top10 in Europe and the top15 in the world, so that is supposed to mean something – beyond Xhaka starting the team sheet when available under Wenger, Emery and Arteta.
https://bergkampesque.com/2019/11/21/how-to-select-an-arsenal-captain-and-why-we-already-have-a-great-one/
A lot of people remember how many yellow / red cards a player picks up during their career but forget why they got them.
just relying on stats doesn’t show how many times a player took a yellow / red card for the team due to players being out of position or to stop a goal scoring opportunity.
Geoff,we’ve probably signed a keeper because Leno wants to leave in the summer rather than the other way around. It’s WC year, he needs to be a number 1 somewhere.
Absolutely Pbarany, disagreeing is healthy.
Personally, I’ll be glad the day Xhaka leaves because like Sue, I think he’s a liability. He has good games, but that’s about it imo.
I like Xhaka but I must admit I am surprised we have not sold him by now
That’s true, Geoff.
I’m sure there were many cards Xhaka received for his ill-timed tackles and bad decision making skills, but I do remember several occasions where he was exposed to counter-attacks when standing in for Tierney. And this season both his marching orders came from seemingly difficult situations, when a successful tackle would make him a hero, an unsuccessful one could lead to a red card and/or penalty and a lack of intervention would clearly result in the opponent 1 on 1 with the keeper. So if such situation leads to a goal conceded 95% of the time, then I can justify the attempted tackle if it could have an a priori success rate of at least 15-20%.
Guys (featuring Sue), I acknowledge having the minority opinion here, and don’t want to hijack the conversation any further.
But on the last word I just want to reiterate the point statistics before and after Xhaka got his red card against Liverpool (disregarding the Manchester City game, mostly as Gabriel was sent off, but also because it’s pretty deterministic to lose against the champions).
4 games with Xhaka before the quarter-final against Liverpool:
Arsenal 3 : 0 Southampton
Arsenal 2 : 0 West Ham
Leeds 1 : 4 Arsenal
Norwich 0 : 5 Arsenal
(The 5:1 victory against Sunderland doesn’t count as Granit played only 34 minutes, and they were poor opponents anyway, so I didn’t want to distort the statistics.)
3 games without Xhaka:
Nottingham Forest 1 : 0 Arsenal
Arsenal 0 : 2 Liverpool
Arsenal 0 : 0 Burnley
Yes, there could be many explanations behind this, including the absence of Partey. But nevertheless it makes sense to give it a thought. It could seem as even he doesn’t have a good game the team does when he is on the pitch (and vice versa) which could further explain why he wasn’t sold, or not playing fourth fiddle behind Partey, Lokonga, Elneny, hell even Maitland-Niles.
Err, and Rico Pbarany. 😜
Xhaka was thankfully not sent off in the last game.
He had a yellow card, just like Partney and Gabriel.
Okay, at best, within 4 games it’s suspended.
I reiterate that the squad is short.
Laca, as I said, is a good player, but the time it takes to execute (due to age and not only) is not compatible with the speed of execution needed in the 1st League.
I find an Albanian player from southampton on loan from Chelsea very interesting.
Re Xhaka Pbarany, his stats, even though who plays in the team and who we play have to be considered, one could argue that that’s another downfall of his. Because he’s missing for so many games, which we might not do so well in.
Your points are always well-put, pbarany 👍
Our managers clearly see something in him [which I’ve missed] as he’s always the first name on the teamsheet! I guess that would explain why I’m not out there on the touchline every week!
Rico.. The Saints are playing well and as JM says, Broja in particular. Pity he’s on loan from the Chavs. Nice seeing the Mancs dropping more points…
Don’t get too hard on yourself, Sue.
If you were on the touchline every week, we might be ahead on the table, and I’m sure we would still be in the FA Cup. 🙂
Sue, hope a few more drops points tomorrow, ie, Totts.
You’re also a funny guy, pbarany 🙂
Fingers crossed, Rico! And the cat kicker!
Absolutely Sue. Can’t believe he’s in the squad again.
Or me, Rico. At least Dagenham and Redbridge had the balls to ban his brother
Yep, small club shows up bigger club Sue. I read he’s banned until after the investigation. Good.
https://twitter.com/OsmanZtheGooner/status/1492542411758837764?s=20&t=_t8ZGaYP7MI65y6sbdrC8A
Just to move the argument / discussion forward from the disciplinary angle .
According to the premier league stats . This season Arsenal have played 22 games so far and have lost 7 times , Xhaka has played in 11 of those and we have lost 5 times . Which means that in the other 11 games without him we have lost only twice.
To discuss what he brings to the team and what he doesn’t is the subject of a completely new day and thread. Suffice it to say that in my humble opinion we are a better unit without him . I could list his lack of positional sense , his inabilty to anticipate , his late reactions , his tendency to misplace passes , not foillowing his man and passing opponents on to other teammates instead of doing the work himself and finally his ability to get lost when it’s tough .
As I stand on the North bank or even watch on TV I see the gaps he leaves and the space afforded to opponents which he closes down at the last minute which is often how he gets caught up in how this conversation started .Late tackles , shirt grabbing and acting tough until someone says boo.
I don’t like him . That might surprise you.
“As you stand and watch him from the North Bank”. Blimey, I didn’t realise Xhaka had been here that long. 😉
It doesn’t Potter, not one bit.
Spookily, there’s a bit about him today.
New post up.
Thanks for the video Sue. Nice.