Morning all.
I know Thierry Henry’s comments about Arsenal will have been widely seen and read by now but too bad, here they are again. Speaking on CBS Sports, Henry stressed the importance of Arsenal’s ‘massive’ win at Wolves and now believes his old club are well set for a top four finish.
The best thing about Arsenal is that they didn’t play. West Ham didn’t take advantage of it. Tottenham has never taken advantage of it.But Arsenal had to go and win at Wolves. That was a massive win, so there are still a lot of games to go. For me, if they don’t do it, (secure top four) as I said at the start of the season, then it will be a failure.
Arsenal not securing a top four spot was something Henry didn’t experience. Reports at the time of his leaving for Barcelona suggested he was too old to be part of an Arsenal rebuild with youth under Arsene Wenger. That rebuild never really came though, or if it did, it didn’t really work. Eventually, Arsene Wenger went back to signing experienced players and that didn’t work either.
Jump forward a few years and Arsenal are back in rebuild mode. A youthful rebuild and yet less than a year into it, Thierry Henry believes that anything bar a top four finish would be a failure. Personally, I think the term failure is a bit harsh. Disappointing is possibly a better way of putting it.
Just because Leicester City won the Premier League title one year, without participating in European football, it doesn’t mean every club can repeat the same achievement. 2016 wasn’t like 2022. Liverpool, Chelsea and Man City weren’t where they are now. If there’s an Arsenal failure to be mentioned, it was 2016 in my opinion.
Are Arsenal favourites for that prestigious 4th place finish? I don’t think so. Admittedly, we have fixtures in hand over West Ham and Manchester Utd but they’ve still got to be played, and won. Of course I hope West Ham and Manchester Utd struggle to juggle European fixtures with League ones but how often have we heard managers, players and fans say that playing regularly is better than having a long break between matches?
As Arsenal rebuild under Mikel Arteta, the football has to keep improving too. In the past, we’ve finished in the top four, won a few FA Cups and got to a Europa Cup Final but when was the last time Arsenal played good football on a regular basis throughout and entire season? Don’t get splinters whilst scratching your head in thought.
This season has been a right old mixture. We’ve seen the team blow away West Ham, Aston Villa and Totts, lose against two awful teams in Everton and Man Utd, struggle against Burnley, Crystal Palace and Brighton, yet battle for victories against Wolves and Leicester City away from home.
Consistency is what Arsenal lack and until Mikel Arteta gets that from his teams, Arsenal will stay as they are in my opinion. Flirting with top four, maybe even securing it this season, but for now at least, I wouldn’t consider us favourites to do so. Nor would I consider it a failure if we don’t. Just a huge disappointment.
See you in the comments.
Pbaraby,I commented on your post as the threads changed over .
Henry is little more than a media mouthpiece now and needs an article every now and again to stay relevant.
He is no more in the know and is setting up for future comments should we finish below 4th .
We have been patchy this season but so has everyone else apart from the top two
It’s there to be had but it’s not the shoe in that the table suggests.
Morning Rico.
Let me come back with an argument from yesterday.
You wrote: “I don’t think Pepe is or would be happy playing a secondary role…”
That’s without doubt. But not many players are, and rightfully so. We have only a handful of players who don’t mind playing second fiddle (Elneny, Holding, Tavares, Cedric, Lokonga, Nketiah, Okonkwo, Mari, Chambers). They ether
– very young and understand they need to develop and mature (Tavares, Okonkwo, Lokonga, Nketiah)
– old, no longer playing for their country, being a squad player meets their ambition (Cedric, Mari)
– have an amazing, laid back personality an/or undisputed loyalty to the club (Holding, Elneny, Chambers)
Note that Arteta didn’t sign players to bench either this summer. White, Odegaard and Tomiyasu were first choice, it didn’t take Ramsdale long to establish himself, while Tavares and Lokonga were for the (near) future.
If we sell Pepe, who will be his replacement? Unless it’s Omari Hutchinson – which might be a bold, yet feasible alternative, but Ithink it’s too early – we’ll face the same challenge. Is Sterling aiming for a bench spot? Or should he replace Saka or Martinelli in the starting line-up? And how about Nkunku? Shall he made Odegaard 2nd choice AM thus making ESR 3rd choice?!
I just can’t understand why the addition of Aarons or Lamptey return to the news. Do they honestly think that after they remained loyal to Norwich and BHA respectively (probably in the hope for a more lucrative and higher profile move) they would join Arsenal to be Tomiyasu’s understudy?
I understand that fans demand world class transfers, but it doesn’t mean they are right. If it was up to them (and unlimited funds) we would sign Mbappé AND Haaland, while still play in 4-2-3-1. It sounds obviously insane, but the predicted (and popular) double swoop for Isak AND Calvert-Lewin is not much less crazy. Who shall be coming to warm the bench (and to deny any further chances for Balogun as he comes back from loan)?
The only positions where a marquee singing would be viable are
– where we don’t have a clear first choice lad
– or where we cannot hold to our star player
The first could justify looking for a great left back as there are rumors around Real Madrid making a 50-60M move for Tierny in the Summer. Yet, signing an obvious first choice will not make Tavares happy…
The second case is CM/DM, especially from the fans point of view, as they would prefer Xhaka gone and wouldn’t mind Partey making 220k a week for sitting on the bench. Still if we acknowledge that AMN is not the Arsenal quality (as Willock wasn’t either), Patino, Azeez and Salah-Eddine are not there yet, and both Odegaard and ESR skill profiles are a mismatch in the 6/8 position, we might be in the market for a young star midfielder. The community demand Rice and Tchouaméni, but I think we would have more chance with Aouar or Gravenberch. And the regularly rumored Orkun Kökcü might be a decent player, but – on paper – he has nothing on Guendouzi.
Good morning all from a sunny but windswept Norfolk.
The one fly in Arteta’s top four ointment is lack of goals. The race for a Champions League spot is, at the moment, between Arsenal, Man U, West ham, Wolves and Tottenham.
It is my belief that goal difference is going to be the decisive factor. As it stands the four have the following GD: +9,+8, +11, +4, -1.
In all honesty I can’t see us improving our goal difference significantly with our present strike force. It is to be hoped, therefore, that our defence can prop up the statistic by achieving as many clean sheets as possible.
Champions League qualification…iffy.
Europa League…possibly.
Morning Pbarany, Cicero, Potter, all.
I’m not suggesting I’m right re Pepe, but, is he doing enough for the team? Is he in Arteta’s long term plans? No idea but it doesn’t seem that way to me.
That’s what I worry about Cicero, goals or rather the lack of them. Europa finish imo too.
pbarany, “We have only a handful of players who don’t mind playing second fiddle (Elneny, Holding, Tavares, Cedric, Lokonga, Nketiah, Okonkwo, Mari, Chambers). ”
Aside from the fact that Mari and Chambers are no longer at the club, Elneny and Nketiah are leaving in the summer, the latter has made it quite clear that playing second fiddle is not for him, Okonkwo is too young and inexperienced to be considered for a starting slot except in an emergency, while Holding had demonstrated his commitment to the club with his excellent performances when called upon which I think shows he too is not a happy to play second fiddle.
Tavares and Lokonga were bought to understudy established players, which only leaves Cedric and he is already in the departure lounge.
Cicero I agree about the goal difference, I said early this season I was worried about the lack of goals hurting us later in the season, but lucky for us except for the top 3 teams all the other clubs around us also have a crap + goals for this time of season.
This striker situation at Arsenal has to be fixed before the start of next season as we can’t keep relying on other clubs to lack scoring to keep us up the ladder.
Unless the club are going to pay extortionate wages, players are bound to get itchy feet if they’re not playing imo. Especially all the time we not really competitive.
On the grounds that we brought no one in to start straight away in January I would call anything less than 4th place a failed season.
Cicero, we agree in some part and disagree in other.
Chambers is indeed out of the club, but he was a rare example that managed the limited game-time, yet put up a really high performance on the rare cases he was called into action. I can’t help to feel that the club kind of failed him, as he was a full-flagged England international when joined, and Fulham’s player of the season on loan.
Mari is on loan and expected to return at the end of the season – unless a club buys him, but neither offers nor even gossips at the moment. And even while he was at Arsenal – and uninjured – he was playing second-to-third fiddle and did not seemed to mind it. His left foot and passing skills would fit the playing-from-the-back style. As he played 400, 1500 and 270 minutes for Arsenal in the last 3 years the 13M fee for his signing and the weekly 85k (4.4M a year) seems like money burnt if we sell him now.
Nketiah might be leaving in the summer, but I can imagine a U-turn in the saga. As a 3rd choice striker he had no intention to stay without European games in the calendar, but as a back-up striker he could thrive in a twice-a-week environment. In fact Auba’s departure favored him as well as Lacazette – and he could also leave in the summer. I think we will sign a first choice forward, but unless Eddie finds a club where he could be #1 (League 1 maybe?) he can reconsider staying at Arsenal and share the cup games and PL bench duties with Balogun.
Elneny is indeed leaving, but not on his own volition. He is a great guy, but very limited offensively, so I can understand not to keep him on a high salary. Yet, he was always loyal, cheerful and gave his best and unlimited energy when played. He was more of a Wenger-type signing and player, but his Coquelin-like play is not a good fit in Arsenals quick midfield transition tactics.
Same applies to Cedric. If he leaves that will not happen as he is insulted by the lack of game time. He makes 65k per week and contracted until 2024, so he will only leave if a club is willing to pay money for him and offer a comparable salary – both of those are somewhat unlikely. Anyway I would have kept Chambers or Cedric at the team, but my choice would have been obviously Calum. Another reason to keep Cedric: we have a couple promising right backs at the academy who need time and mentoring before joining the first team. For Swanson and Osei-Tutu it’s probably too late, but Jeorge Bird has a good opinion of Alebiosu, but my money is on Brooke Norton-Cuffy and Reuell Walters. They are 18/17 at the moment but play at League One / Arsenal U23 respectively, so could break into the first team in 2-3 years. But a young RB signing (Aarons, Lamptey) would hinder their development, chances, motivation and loyalty to stay. Anyway, I don’t see Soares leaving in the summer.
Potter, thanks for your answer on the previous thread.
You are right about the defense overload and spot on with the revolving door metaphor.
In fact I was never excited about the White transfer – to break 53M for a short defender when we have a too large CB crowd already – but that’s crying over spilt milk. However unlike Rico I don’t think the club is going to the right direction. It seems that we still follow the sell cheap, release on a free or buy him out from the existing contract principle. And if Mavropanos is sold because he is slow in passing or a defensive liability, that’s fine; there could be multiple intelligent reasons to keep or sell a player. However “because he was purchased by Mislintat” is not one of them. In fact that’s somewhere between childish and borderline imbecile.
Anyway, time will tell. We’ll see in the summer window, and I’ll be more than happy to eat the humble pie.
Pbaramy, the only thing we agree about is Elneny leaving.
Chambers is sold so is irrelevant.
Mari is on loan and will be either sold or again loaned out.
Nketiah will undoubtedly leave as there is no question of us not signing a first-choice striker which would push him further down the order and he wouldn’t be happy sharing the bench with Balogun.
Cedric will want to be playing regularly in order to win back his International place, he won’t get the games he needs to do that at Arsenal.
Well, Cedric need a salary cut if he want’s to leave.
Furthermore his penultimate game for Portugal happened in 2018, so I doubt he is close to the national team, but I wouldn’t want to water down his ambitions. Nevertheless Joao Cancelo (26y, 54M) is the undisputed right back for Portugal, while the back-ups are Nelson Semedo (28y, 22.5M) and Diogo Dalot (22y, 11M). I don’t see Cedric’s (30y, 4.5M) claim to have any foundation, but what do I know…
We’ll see about Mari and Nketiah in the summer. I think both of them are fine players, especially for cup games. But that wouldn’t be the only thing I’d bee in disagreement with Arteta…
I wasn’t trying to suggest the club was going in the right direction Pbarany, in fact I’m not sure it is because like you, I couldn’t understand why we signed White when we already had Saliba.
I suppose I’m just trying to see it through the eyes of the club and perhaps what their plans are and I just can’t see many, if any of the senior players who’re on loan coming back which if I’m right, is why I’d rather the club got a fee for them than see them walk away for free.
I strongly believe that Arteta will sell Saliba because he was brought into Arsenal by uni Emery and deep down Arteta holds a grudge against Emery as he feels he should have got the position over Emery in the first place.
Geoff. Does the same apply to Martinelli, who was also signed by Unai?
Adam I wouldn’t put it past him to sell any player that he did bring in.
Geoff, Arteta wasn’t ready then, some might suggest he wasn’t/isn’t now but I doubt there’s any hard feeling towards Emery.
Or Tierney Adam?
Geoff, with the greatest of respect, I think that suggestion is off the mark. Who has Arteta sold, or been part of the decision to sell, has been missed? Emotions aside, I’m not sure there is anyone, certainly not off the top of my head.
Ramsdale has put to bed the Martinez upset imo.
New post up now
Sorry for the misunderstanding, Rico.
I appreciate looking things from different perspectives (my second favorite scene from Dead Poets Society). And I’m not suggesting that Arteta or Edu were incompetent, but both of them are rookies in their current position, so it’s part of life that they make a mistake or two every now and then. However I honestly think that the White-transfer was a Manchester City type of signing, which seems to be a mismatch with Arsenal’s culture and finances. But I hope to be wrong, and would be happy if Ben becomes the undisputed top defender of the league in the next campaign.
Geoff, firstly I agree with Adam that if that’s a reasonable argument against Saliba (plus Guendouzi, Pepe and Torreira, maybe even Leno) then shouldn’t it apply to Martinelli and TIERNEY as well?
Secondly, assuming that this grudge does exists and indeed stems from the succession of Arsene Wenger, if Arteta would truly base the future of many of the club’s players (thus about 100M+ worth of investment) on mostly this, doesn’t it make him a gigantic @$$hole and unfit to lead any serious organization, not least of all our beloved club of prestigious history and traditions?
No problem Pbarany..