Daily Bits and Bobs

Defender exit confirmed. Arsene, What's This About Versatility?

Posted on by rico

Morning all.

Sam Allardyce has confirmed West Ham are close to sealing a loan deal for Carl Jenkinson. Good luck to the player, I hope he has a great season and comes back a much stronger player.

Here’s today’s post.

These days transfer gazers seem to favour players that could play in several positions. They call it versatility and I ask, versa what? Calum Chambers has just been signed by Arsenal, and part of the reasons, if not the major reason, I understand, is that he could play at right back (RB), centre back (CB) and midfield(DM). Some even added right wing (RW).

Professionalism involves individuals specialising in where they can give out their best, and not necessarily where they should make others give out their best. A game of football should be respected as a sport where the actors were already created with natural endowments before the human element of coaching comes in.

Paolo Maldini may have retired as a CB but we all know there have been few, if any, left backs in world football that could measure to his level. So can be said of Eric Abidal, and a certain Lilian Thuram from the other wing.

In the EPL, Joseph Yobo, the Nigerian CB who once starred for Everton, started his career as RB but because Nigeria lacked quality CBs, he was converted to CB … and from that moment an excellent footballer was reduced to just good player.

Blackburn Rovers’ Phil Jones was snatched from the claws of Arsene Wenger by the ever fiery Sir Alex Ferguson, the same scenario repeated with Fulham’s Chris Smalling. Both CBs were bought as long-term replacements for Rio Ferdinard and Nemanja Vidic. Today, Ferdinand and Vidic are gone with Jones and Smalling very much around but no manager, least of all Louis Van Gaal, would hand starting shirts to the latter duo. Why? Jones, for three seasons, had played CB, RCB, LCB, DM, B-to-B for Man Utd. Even the lad would be confused at which he would ever prefer. Much as Smalling, who ‘versatiled’ in three positions – RB, LCB, RCB. Thus, great potentials were reduced to mere spares in multiple positions. Pretty much jack of all trades, yet master of none!

Coming home, Wenger, the master (or is it villain?) of conversions, hit pay dirt with Thierry Henry. Roberto Pires too… and Emmanuel Petit as well. Ever since, Le Prof hardly ever bought a player with the position he was playing for the club he left, in mind.

But a critical study would expose that for every Henry made, there were 20 Arshavins destroyed.

Time and space may be constraints here for details but brief mentions must be made of Arshavin,  Alex Hleb, Tomas Rosicky, Carlos Vela, Denilson, Abou Diaby, Jack Wilshere, et al – all great attacking midfielders who were banished elsewhere just for Cesc Fabregas to blossom. For good measure, one would attest it to Wenger’s utter obsession than other interpretations had Fabregas been French.

A pertinent question may suffice at this stage – why did Fabregas become a hit in Arsenal and flopped at his home club, Barcelona? Simple – at Arsenal, Wenger kicked off the boy’s career in his natural position. Unlike his colleagues that played from both wings and sometimes even at wing backs … Fabregas took off at where he was best at and remained there. At Barca, there were Xavi and Andre Iniesta, and Fabregas once got tweaked around positions and like Arshavin, he dwindled.

Another question may go – why did Ramsey become the player he suddenly was last season? The Welshman was playing next to Fabregas at the middle when his leg got broken at Stoke. By the time he came back, Wilshere and Diaby had taken that position. Ramsey then got played all over the pitch, including RB. It took Diaby’s injury (as always) and Wilshere’s long layoff for Ramsey to play pre-season and half season from his favoured position …. and look at the player he is today!

And funny enough, by the time Wilshere returned, Ramsey had taken over the box-to-box role. Wilshere then had to go through same fate … unfortunately for Jack, he got injured too when Ramsey gave way. But start a fit Wilshere for 10 games in the box-to-box role we could see a player at par with, or even better than Ramsey.

We sympathised with Wenger when he had no funds to go for the players he wanted. He couldn’t get his desirables available so he made the available desirable. But today, having spent around 60 million pounds before the transfer window went half-way, one is assured that enough funds are available again. Why then stick to this habit of buying players to throw them all over the pitch?

The Premier League rule gives freedom for 25 senior players – it is safe to assume it is for two players in each position, then other three of your choice which usually includes a goalkeeper. Why shouldn’t an Arsenal team be made up of two good specialist players in every position instead of having 10 players that can play everywhere on the pitch? Why shouldn’t Santi Carzola be sharing the CAM role with Mesut Ozil instead of starting from the left, thereby denying a clinical finisher like Lukas Podolski his game chances?

And finally, why should Chambers be signed mainly because he is ‘versatile’ and then send a player like Carl Jenkinson out? Why wouldn’t Jenkinson be retained for just Debuchy’s understudy and a proper CB signed to make a better balanced squad? Why shouldn’t a real DM be signed instead of evidently attempting to hope on the ‘versatility’ of a 19-year old? Such conversions, when it ever worked, took time. Why can’t a player hit the ground running from his specialist position?

We’re all enjoying this transfer window for once in a very long while but somebody should tell Wenger that such old habits of putting wrong pegs in wrong holes should be banished to the austere years. There is a real danger of soon destroying a player like Carzola, who has been converted to play from the wings at 28!

Written by Tai Emeka Obasi

 

rico

445 thoughts on “Defender exit confirmed. Arsene, What's This About Versatility?”

  3. rico says:

    Morning again all..

    Really good post Tai, thank you.

    The good old square pegs in round holes, something which irks me too.

    Always believe that if you need a striker, sign one and don’t make someone fit in just because…. Same in every position on the pitch, after all, you wouldn’t want to see Giroud in goal.

    Suggestion is AW puts players into different positions as it helps them learn more about their own game, something which nearly backfired with Ramsey because all the time he was shunted left, right etc, his game was awful and fans turned.

    Like you say, look at him now, now he’s where he ‘should’ be…

  5. potter says:

    Interesting post , I suppose Lauren was another success , a midfielder at Mallorca but switched to full back for us. The last really Mr adaptable that we have had was probably Grimandi , a real master of very little but his tackle on Edgar Davids will stay long in my memory.

  6. Hell Raising Devil says:

    Good article Tai. much as I agree with you however I must say that AW’ and other coaches as well (Pep included) are forwarding the idea of 5 defensive minded players and 5 attack minded players who can play anywhere along the defence or along the attack. Its not an idea I agree with as there is nothing more beautiful than seeing a winger playing in his natural position and whipping cross after cross and usually they find their mark. Or seeing a player play in his natural position

    Yet that is the way football managers want to go. But keep in mind that this is a cycle. At the end of the day we all go back to basics……. and one day there will be a manager who will be hailed a genius because he has invented a specialist position for a player on the pitch……..after that position was gazumped way back in the early years of the 21st century.

  8. Tai Emeka Obasi says:

    Hmmm, Rico…I think I got that from Frederick Forsyth…meaning got back maximum dividends from efforts as intented….

  10. bradster says:

    Good morning,

    Agreed good post Tai. I just don’t agree on Jenkinson, I like the boy and he’s getting on in years but not getting more experienced. If he didn’t get in ahead of Sagna then he’ll be warming the bench with Debuchy.

    I’m hoping that Chambers is the bonus due to him been too young to be counted than covering for a number of positions. I would actually like to see us use Miguel as the 4th choice CB and use or replace Vermaelen. I feel that as well as Mert reads the game well, counter attack will always skin us.

  11. Tai Emeka Obasi says:

    Thanks, Rico…for finding today’s post worthy. I’m tired of seeing players being played in wrong positions.

  13. tsgh says:

    My only slight disagreement on the whole post is ”There is a real danger of soon destroying a player like Carzola, who has been converted to play from the wings at 28!”…

    SC19 was never a no.10 before he joined us… he was quickly found out though in that position that was why after January Aw played TR07 in the hole to carry us over the line into the UCL position… imo

    He was a winger and a semi DM on occasions for Pellegrini at both Villareal and Malaga…
    At Villareal, the Argentine Riquelme was the no.10 with pires and SC19 occupying either flanks with Senna and Godin now of Ath in the middle.

    If and when riquelme was absent our own Bobby Pires was played in the hole instead of Sc19…

    It was the same at Malaga with Isco and Eliseu playing behind Rondon and Van Nisteroy (spelling)

  14. Iain says:

    agreed with most of that but you dont factor that Arsenal play an interchange pass and move game so no position is that static in the front third. Cazorla should indeed be OZIL 2.0 but would you bench him and lose his guile on the pitch or play him and allow him to cut inside, which he frequently does. Wenger believes in total football as a requisite- if an injury or sending off strikes his team, the shape may change but not leave a gaping hole in ability in one position.

    I would guess that history makes him right. With no cash to speak of he has kept us top 4 ad infinitum. Now with better players and a deeper squad, we should kick on. I concur with most that we need a striker of note and a great DM – a specialist position if ever there was one, but for the rest, pace power and ability should mean an interchangeable team should work.

  15. Scott From Oz says:

    Top post, Tai, though Jack will never be better than Aaron, IMO.
    He’s not as smart on the pitch.
    Brilliant write up……..

  16. tsgh says:

    Grimandi… loved that elbow…

    I know I will get slated for mentioning PV04 again but if any of our current players did what he did that led to the goal, that player would get slaughtered…?

  19. Hell Raising Devil says:

    in our country if a player did what PV04 did in that game he would not get slaughtered……….he would have to stay in the stadium for the rest of his life. Otherwise he would be killed.

  20. Hell Raising Devil says:

    Aaron’s brain is between his ears and smartly on his head.

    JAck’s brain is somewhere else. way lower than his chest. 😉

  21. snaparse says:

    top post tai even though I think carzola was never a number 10 but brilliant work and I agree with almost everything else…….I think arsene has always favoured a playmaker on the other side of and inside forward behind the striker it helps make the team balance IMO of course sometimes it might not work but………..good post keep up the good work mate

  22. tsgh says:

    lol… Dev… thanks for that view…

    Dev, I didn’t realise you were a drug lord from Colombia? 😛

    Sometimes I bring up these points not to say our LEGENDS were bad players but to remind folks that they made numerous mistakes too… and let AW down otherwise we should have won the UCL in those days…

  25. snaparse says:

    ts grimandi was a player I liked not as talented but gives his maximum always good to have those around especially for our 12:45 kick offs lol

  26. Scott From Oz says:

    Jack CAN still make it….I have no doubt the potential is there
    I can’t say he will though.

  28. tsgh says:

    Also Ramsey was a winger before he joined us…

    The reason why he chose us was because Aw promised him a role through the middle..

    He even scored against AFC in his teens from the wings…

  29. GO says:

    You missed a few points. We bought Carzola playing as a left Winger for malaga, it was indeed Arsene that started playing him Centrally. Podolski was carrying a niggle for a long time and Wenger turned to carzola to do a job on the left. Teams seem to favour playing on CAM and one Wing Forward in the two wing positions these days. The German team that won the world cup played our own Ozil on the left to great effect. Nasri is also a CAM but he continued been played out wide in city to great effects. There is nothing wrong in a player been versatile, as long as the coach is not confused as to where his best position on the pitch is. Glad you mentioned Henry, but hope you haven’t forgotten Gareth Bale, Theo Walcott and RVP as well.

    As for Chambers he is only 19 years old and Wenger will definitely have a preference in the role he wants to play him in primarily, and he will groom him in that role. The team will just only benefit from the fact that he can put in a shift in the other roles in case the team becomes short (either through injury or loss of form) in the other position. You can only put 7 players on the bench including the reserve Keeper in any game, that means you have 6 players that can potentially substitute 10 on the pitch. Anyone of them could be injured at anytime and need to be subbed if teams keeps to your recommendation of strict one dimensional players for every position, then every position on the pitch will not be covered. This is where versatility comes in.

    Wenger sees the OX future as a central midfielder, that tells you he knows for sure where the lad will attain his best, but he is also a decent cover in the event we are short on the wings, while he is also not our best central midfielder at the moment. Thats the joy of versatility.

  31. potter says:

    Hitting Pay dirt ,
    Came from the California gold rush when people were pan handling mountains of earth looking for little nuggets of gold. When they found some they hit the pay dirt.

  32. tsgh says:

    Hi Snap… I know one of Grimandi’s pals very well.. and apparently Gilles is a very very funny…

    I could not stand him initially but got to appreciate his tactical awareness on the pitch…

    good point GO…

    Tai.. honestly a very top top post; was not being smart re SC19. just that it is one of those views fans and pundits have come to believe that SC19 played through the middle and AW is wasting him on the wings…

    Unfortunately, being the sad man that I am I follow certain teams because of 1 or 2 players they may have in their ransk… for Villareal the yellow submarines it was Senna and Riquelme… one of my fave no.10’s of all time….

    The down side to that is that I will have to start watching Waregem because of Aneke now… 😛

    And even follow RM because of Toni Kroos… I can’t believe he did that to me…

  33. Funcy says:

    You have spoken and spoken well. Your technical bias is outstanding and overwhelming. This season will be as exciting as it will be demanding. Ŵenger more than any one else will be very informed. Result will be demanded and the bulk falls to him to deliver. We wait and we wait patiently. Let us throw our full support behind him and the boys.

  35. snaparse says:

    hi ts………good on grimandi he wasn’t always popular down here so…….PSG apparently closing in on di maria….cavani really wants to leave and the have to sell some players anyways……lavezzi pastore maquinos are all on the shortlist

  36. tsgh says:

    Snap- £18m for Cavani… even I will take him…

    Psg are begging Yanited to make a move but Cavani wants London or Spain again.. apparently

  38. BrainwashedKev says:

    Interesting post making some debatable points…

    For myself, the best football is ever saw, came from the Dutch National teams of the 1970’s

    Total Football, that familiar term, was born from that era…

    A squad of players, highly technical, comfortable with the ball and in any position that they found themselves on the pitch…

    Every player interchangeable with his team mates…

    The essence of versatility….

  39. bondex says:

    Almost perfect post Tai, really enjoyed it except for little exemptions that have been mentioned already. Imo I think having versatile players helps the team in the long run. I don’t think having specialist players in positions is a guarantee that you’ll win games as it practically just makes the team very predictable. I honestly think we’ve gotten or DM at least up until January.

  41. tsgh says:

    I am with you Rico…

    Personally, I don’t think it is make or break season for JW as the media and the player himself has said recently…

    The pressure is brought on himself as he maybe thinks he needs to be world conquering…

    Not a lot of WC midfielders were top at 22 y.o…

    My only reservation is that he was still running into blind alleys against NYRB’s and losing the ball in dangerous areas thereby asking Arteta to cover and recover the lost possession which should not happened in the first place…
    But the faithful say JW was awesome and Arteta was rubbish so I will go with that… 😉

  42. snaparse says:

    yes ts he prefers London ……Chelsea? Wenger is a big fan that I know but will he buy?……lavezzi wants Italy apparently don’t mind him either

  43. Scott From Oz says:

    Ginge, get in Jacks ear, tell hm to keep things simple, and the rest will flow from there……

  44. Nickie says:

    Hi all again.

    Great post Tai.

    I may be in the minority here but I like versatility. It works at the biggest clubs in the world. City….Nasri out on wings, Milner everywhere, Garcia to CB. Chelsea, Ivanovic CB/RB, Azpillicueta RB/LB, Luiz CB/CDM, Oscar CM,Winger and more…

    The only thing that bothers me is the players he does switch positions…Ramsey and Cazorla, not the quickest but has put them on the wings. I like the way we rotate our midfield to different positions, 1 game Rosicky could be CAM, the next RM, the next deep laying. It keeps the opposition guessing.

  46. BrainwashedKev says:

    Being versatile, shouldn’t be viewed as a negative, imo, but more so a positive…

    Some players can adapt.

    Others cannot…

    A professional footballer should be able to play a different position and learn from it…

    I agree with Tai in that some players do not have the capacity to be versatile

    But there is no reason that it generally should damage their performance, if they work diligently and intelligently on their craft…

    Both Phil Jones and Chris Smalling would have, in my view, improved a lot better if they had joined Arsenal….
    They have stagnated at Old Bog because of the coaching they have received, the injuries they have suffered (misfortune) and the mishandling of their managers…

    Just my view….

    Let’s have it then….. 🙂

  47. rico says:

    Nickie, I used to love watching Freddie and Bobby, never knew which side they’d pop up on and when…

    What I’m against is ‘making do’ – like when we need a winger, he signs a striker and then plays him out wide..

    Destroyed a great player in Nikki B…. 😉

  48. Nickie says:

    Ts,

    Against Red Bulls Arteta looked lacking match practice….He made a dodgy pass backwards that a decent prem side would have taken full advantage of. Jack was good, good link up play, running with ball, should have scored. He did his old bad habit in hanging onto the ball too long. I suspect Arteta to get sharper with some more games, Wilshere looking like he’s got a point to prove.

  51. tsgh says:

    I wish I could Scott… 😉

    I have been dropping the word into a few young folks who use to hang with Frimps and JW 4 or 5 years ago but I guess it hasn’t gotten up the food chain. lol

    Can’t disagree at all Nickie re MA08; But MA08 always starts pre-season that way…
    As I always say its what the player does off the ball that makes him a top player to me…

    I like Versatility… but you need players with tactical awareness/football brains to make it work.

    Look at how Kroos and Schwinsteiger plugged the holes in midfield against Argentina in the first half during wc…

    Kroos and Bastian opted to switch positions when Argentina were commanding the midfield..

    Arteta, TR07 and Ramsey plus Ozil have that in abundance..

    you take any 2 out of our squad and then we become very static…

    The game against CP last season is a perfect example where Flamster was taken off and Arteta was brought on and then we won 2 nil immediately after the break…

  52. Nickie says:

    Rico,

    Re Bendtner that was ridiculous playing a tall striker as a winger lol That’s a big no no haha even by Wenger’s standards I thought he’d lost the plot. With defenders I just find versatility a huge positive, Chambers for example will have his “main” position but if we are short you can feel confident and comfortable he’d come in and do a job elsewhere across the back line. As long as you have good a good tactical mind, good positional sense and a tackle that will destroy you’re opponent you’ll be just fine lol

  53. Nickie says:

    Just a quick comment regards CDM/B2B midfielder. I really think Pogba is who Wenger will go hard for.

  54. BrainwashedKev says:

    Nick, last season, Arsenal, for a brief period, showed what was possible and what level our midfield could perform to, when all our midfielders were interchanging with each other, no main man, a la Cesc, but a fluid, date I say, versatile 😉 midfield…

    It was beautiful to behold, but sadly didn’t last, due to injuries.

    Hopefully this season, Wenger will take that up a notch and we can sustain it over a longer period.

    That’s why I don’t wanna lose any of our midfielders, as they will all be needed for that system to prosper…

  55. Adam says:

    Good post Tai.
    Why would any club pay a manager £7-8 million a year if it wasn’t for his judgement? Like Nickie I like versatility and I believe that the limitations on squad number and the amount of competitions the club are in plus the likely injury scenarios make it a necessity.
    Give me a player that has a magnificent first touch, two good feet and has a picture of the game with an eye for a pass and I will show you a versatile player. Versatility is also important because not all games and situations are alike and you need to be able to adapt to the current situation. I have seen too many players who are technically good but have no appreciation of the state of the game.
    As for Jenks? He really needs to step his game up wherever he plays next season and I imagine Chambers was a chance the club felt it had to take while the opportunity was there.

  56. tsgh says:

    Rico says LG can attest to Pogba joining too so you might have a point…

    Personally, I wont be overly happy…

    For the same fee I will go for Vidal as Juve have said only 1 of those will leave…

    Pogba at DM… a no no imho… he does not cover enough ground nor have th discipline yet; unless Ramsey will be dropped further back…

    Nickie Have you seen the games where pogba played without Vidal or Marchissio in midfield for Juve?

    The same as France without Cabaye…

  57. rico says:

    Same old for Arteta then Nickie.. 😉

    We don’t have much of the breeze Kev, bit hot on the patio… lol

  58. Nickie says:

    Agreed Kev,

    Worrying reports that Athletico are set to move for Cazorla are cropping up again. He’s the sort of player we need to hold on to imo if we are to create that fluid interchanging midfield this season. All the midfield was missing was a technical, strong CM to pick up the pieces if attacks break down.

  60. tsgh says:

    It was inevitable, it is going according to script… the club can then save face… that they didn’t want to sell but the player handed in a transfer request…

  61. Gunnerdna says:

    Morning all, square pegs in round hole/versility can work depends on the tactics/class of the manager, i have been watching Man United under LVG and they seems a different team, this is the team that played against Inter Milan last night.

    De Gea
    _______Jones___Evans___Smalling
    Valencia__Fletcher__Herrera___Young
    ________________Mata
    ________Rooney______Wellbeck

    Versality is a big part of football in this day and age, it just doesn’t work with average players who lacks the basic football intelligence/skills.

  62. Nickie says:

    Ts,

    I’ll admit i’m not sold on Pogba yet. He looked immature and tactically poor for France, a bit of a headless chicken if you will. What I do like about him is his raw talent. He’s certainly got something but he is far from the finished product. Maybe a bit of Wenger time would help him. I think Pog could work with Ramsey but would need more discipline, if he doesn’t progress tactically we’d get ripped to pieces.

    People are too sold on the odd wonder goal that’s caught on camera and do not pay too much attention or give the time to assess performances on the field for 90 mins.

    Re interest in Pogba, I genuinely have a couple of people on twitter that have seemed very accurate so far (foolish to be sucked into rumours probably) but they keep teasing Pogba. He is a “name” that would get people exciting.

    Most fans are only interested in the brand…not the product unfortunately.

  65. tsgh says:

    Snap. At a cut price fee even I will buy Cavani… he is a poacher… the last of a dying breed. imo

    I am sure the player will jump at the opportunity to play for us….

    But as Dev said, maybe AW does not want more than 3 non-EU players especially first team players in the squad…

  66. Alex says:

    Very good and well written article, however i feel you ignore the merits of Versatility. For example our own DB10 played in many positions at Ajax in the youth system and look how bloody amazing he was. And Henry was converted from right wing too. Point is, there have been many successes. Hopefully Chambers will come good, very excited about Sanchez, COYG!!!

  67. rico says:

    🙂 Nickie, it sure exceeded anything he’d done before..

    I’m actually pleased that we have signed Chambers and it’s great he can play in many positions. My gripe is sticking a ‘slowish’ midfielder out on the wing and expect him to bomb up and down for 90 mins… 😉

    Sometimes, imo, we need specialist players for specialist positions…

    Like all this ‘false no 9’ mallarky, just sign a proper no 9 and be done with it… lol

  69. Nickie says:

    Exactly Rico :)…

    Expect to see Arteta operating RWB in a 5-3-2 next season.

    and instead of Diaby on the medical table, he’ll actually be the physio giving treatments. Position changes for everyone!! haha

  70. rico says:

    Adam

    ‘Versatility is also important because not all games and situations are alike and you need to be able to adapt to the current situation’.

    Can you tell Arsene?? 😉

  73. Micko says:

    Another good one TEO,
    No-one really knows arsene’s plans for CC this season but i’m pretty sure he’s gonna get his fair share of playing time on the pitch.

    tsgh 11.08, anyone can pick holes in a player if they want to, it’s an easy card to play, but funnily enough I find myself agreeing with you, just imagine if dave seaman got lobbed in a european cup final or say dennis berkgamp missed a last minute penaly in an fa cup semi-final I’m pretty sure they’d get slaughtered as well.
    Who’d wanna be an Arsenal Legend.

  74. Adam says:

    Now now Rico. 🙂
    You know that nobody can tell Arsene anything which is why the ‘big’ away games this season will be so interesting after last time out,

  76. Gunnerdna says:

    AFCPressWatch™ @AFCPressWatch · 14m
    Arsenal midfielder Santi Cazorla could be set for a move away from the Emirates, ITV Sport understands. #AFC #Atleti

  77. Nickie says:

    He said cut down price Gdna lol. I think anyone would take Cavani if he was 15-20m and on the transfer list if they needed a striker

  78. tsgh says:

    Rico, only Ramsey (5 times in EPL) was voted more times as the Motm than Arteta…

    I agree though he needs to be used less often in games; I think he performs better in games that need tactical focus like against BM and their likes…

    So far as it is not Le Coq taking his place… lol

  79. Gunnerdna says:

    AFCPressWatch™ @AFCPressWatch
    West Ham will ensure they have an option to buy Carl Jenkinson attached to the loan deal they are currently negotiating. #AFC #ArsenaI

  82. Adam says:

    Rico. Yes, they need another opener and are desperate for another quick seamer too. Butler has done well I think.

  83. tsgh says:

    lol Dna… are player being over rated does not make him a bad player in my books at least…

    I have always said I do not think Cavani is worth £40m plus £160kp/w… I don’t think I am being harsh saying that…

    Hey Micko… are you up to your old tricks again? 😉

  86. rico says:

    Adam. Butlers been fab hasn’t he, so athletic behind the stumps. Have a sneaky feeling he’ll be up the order today in hope of some quick runs. Need to get them back into bat after tea, or just before…

    Finn or Bresnan might come back for next test, maybe…

  92. rico says:

    Adam, knowing Cook he’ll want to get 450+ to ensure we can’t lose the game. They are going for it this morning though so could be there soon… lol

  98. Adam says:

    Rico. We should hook up for a test at a Lords next year. Nice day out with a bottle of bubbly to share. 🙂
    We could take Kev and even Lee. 🙂

  99. Wath says:

    Thanx for thinking of me Adam…..! I’ll sit in the pub on my own as usual like Johnnie no mates…. Shut up Micko………..

  101. rico says:

    He can bat too Adam.

    Sounds like a good plan – I’ll leave it to you to sort then… 😉

    Hi Johnnie.. 😉

  102. Nickie says:

    Ts,

    We’ll put him on Bendtners old wages, see how he does then give him a pay increase if he cuts it on the RW 😉 lol

  103. Micko says:

    Adam, please excuse my ignorance, not big into cricket but aren’t the tea intervals one of the highlights of an England test match ?

    Hi rico.

    tsgh, I just prefer to remember some of the good times these players gave us, they much out weigh the bad !

  105. rico says:

    Ts, on a serious note re Arteta, he has done well for us but he’s a weak link when we play against pace.

  114. Sukky says:

    Speaking of Jackie boy,he may not make it.He won’t simplify his game,he will wanna dribble all †̥ђƺ opponents,do impossible things.†̥ђƺ fact is †̥Ђƺ MEDIA HAVE DESTROYED THAT 2011/2012 KID.Let’s face it.

  118. Wath says:

    Micko, I wonder why………………

    I always thought the highlight of a test match was the fact you can get pissed as a fart all day long and not have to watch the boring cricket…!

  120. Nickie says:

    Media or not, Fans or not. Players get paid serious amounts of money to ignore all the crap. The media hasn’t destroyed Jack. Jack isn’t even destroyed yet. We expect a lot from a 22yo. He should just focus on his football…I’m sure the money definitely helps though.

  122. Hell Raising Devil says:

    Good Lord…..today on the temperature it marked 40 degrees right now. No wonder we feel flat out and lethargic.

    How is the weather over there??

  123. NashuaGunners says:

    Good Afternoon Rico and All

    Tai. Good work and keep it up.

    I’m caught in between Versatility and Specialist. My opinion is you need both in the team as situations demand it. BS as CB always scares the hell out of me I don’t know why. Maybe because of the pace and lack of height. PM at least has one in abundant.

    The DM position should be a specialist for me, because he supposed to read the game well, knows when to bounce forward and importantly knows who to kick in their calves that will help slow them down without a card. So, in that case Pogba is not specialized enough for in the DM role. I have seen too much of him to come to that conclusion. And another thing, if he comes and fair I for one will say AW has loss it. Because he could not make it at ManU and Sir AF was smart enough to cut his losses. Give him two years more, maybe then.

  125. Hell Raising Devil says:

    NG…the most important positions to be a specialist is CB, DM and CF….the spine.

    the lateral players should be versatile…..that is play as a defender and as a winger/forward.

  126. rico says:

    Afternoon Ng.

    I disagree re Pogba at Man Utd, Fergie was furious that he didn’t renew his contract and walked out… I think Giggs or Scholes suggested that..

  128. tsgh says:

    Micko, good honourable ordinary people turned into maniacs overnight because those who they were meant to be accountable for failed to hold them accountable.. a wise man once said. 😉

    It is also said that memories are the key not to the past, but to the future.
    Every journey into the past is complicated by delusions, false memories, false namings of real events.
    Apparently, the only memories that are always true are the love a mother gives to her child and the joy a good father experiences the first time he cradles his child;

  130. NashuaGunners says:

    Rico. I stand corrected. So you want him at Arsenal presume?

    @Davil. So you could take Song back, he’s one of the few specialist in that position? 🙂

  131. BrainwashedKev says:

    I’m enjoying the shade inside Liverpool Street Stn… 🙂

    A Test match, yep, I’m in, Lords or The Oval…

    Wath, how’s it going mate?

  132. Sukky says:

    That moment when you realise Luke Shaw and fellani earns more thatn Philip lahm and rues respectively.Man united panicking as always.Can’t wait to beat them at old toilet.

  133. Gunnerdna says:

    AFCPressWatch™ @AFCPressWatch
    Arsenal forward Serge Gnabry is understood to have rejected a move to Crystal Palace on Tuesday, according to reports #AFC #CPFC

  134. BrainwashedKev says:

    Pogba…. I really can’t see all the fuss surrounding him, vastly overrated on what I’ve seen…

    I also cannot understand all the rubbish that’s going on around Wilshere?
    Just leave him to play.

    He’ll be alright…

  135. rico says:

    Ng, I’ll be honest, I only little clips of him during the WC, so can’t really say yes or no. But, many here rate him quite highly.

  136. tsgh says:

    ha ha Sukky.. so true.

    But Shaw is a (future) England international regular whilst Lahm merely captains the die Mannschaft; that is the crux I guess 😉

  138. BrainwashedKev says:

    I don’t wanna see either Jenkinson or Gnabry loaned out, to be sold…

    Loan them, yes…

    But no option to sell…

    If West Ham want an option to buy, then they should be told to FO…

  139. Hell Raising Devil says:

    NG…..Song??? I wonder what you are smoking where you live 😉

    Never, Never, Never.

    I used to defend him because I saw that he would become a very good player. but now that his real character came out I would not even want him as the water boy let alone play in this team.

  143. BrainwashedKev says:

    I was chatting to a passenger earlier (a photographer) and found out he is a Gooner and sits 11 rows in front of me….

    He said he met Vermaelen a couple of days ago, with his family in a restaurant, and asked TV if he was leaving?

    TV said he doesn’t want to…. Which was probably a diplomatic answer…

  146. tsgh says:

    Ng as you know, I also rate and defend Song on his ability and the fact that he was misunderstood re the position he was playing in the team but I wouldn’t want him back at all….

    One question though, for those who claim Song not playing majority of games for Barca providing proof that Song was not good… how many games did the Legend TH14, Overmars, Petite etc play for Barca?

    I personally do not see it as a disgrace if Song played only 19 games out of the 38 la liga games last season…

  147. rico says:

    The answer there Ts is, with the others you mention, we had them during their prime. Song was still young when he opted to join Barca but they soon found out he was quite average…

  148. NashuaGunners says:

    I hope TV stay. To be a captain and sit on the bench time after time is depressing. It could have be ideal for AW and him to work on the DM role. Him siting in front of the back four and the way he likes to go forward could have suit that position well.

  149. rico says:

    Ts, another thing about Song, I know you say he wasn’t a DM and wasn’t asked to play as a DM, AW himself said that the player was not defensive enough at times.

    That kind of suggests to me that he was not supposed to bomb up the pitch like Messi quite so often…. lol

  150. tsgh says:

    I guess in life what goes around comes around…

    Most managers as much as some of us fans may worship them are just humans…

    CJ25 was promoted ahead of Yennaris from the depth of league 2 having played less than 10 games and he also got rid of Eboue…

    By all accounts his days are numbered… these kid of loans are just smoke screens imho…

    Yes Rico, but even Cesc could not expropriate either of aging Xavi or Iniesta’s places nor even Busquet….

    He was bought as a squad player imo… and I guess he is happy to be a bit part player for a ‘big’ club like Barca.

    My grief with Song is that he chose to align with DD’s ambitions than look at what AW had done for him…

    saying that knowing JW was earning more than him was enough to get him conned by DD…

    I don’t remember Aw saying Song was not defensive enough… he thought he was going to be a CB in the latter part of his career and even deputise as a CB for us on several occasions including the day Per injured his ankle ligaments in February 2012 in Sunderland…

  151. George says:

    Afternoon all…

    Jenks and Gnabry will get loans, i fear Campbell , miguel and afobe will be sold. Akpom will get CC matches along with zelalem chambers and olsson.

    Miyachi looks a goner …

    Sorry state of affairs at Southampton…As much as i like Morgan as a player, he might be disruptive….

  153. tsgh says:

    From the photo… team A vs Team B

    Bellerin (RB), CC and Miquel (CD) and Nacho at LB
    Hayden in DM position…

  155. NashuaGunners says:

    The positives about Song he was always in the Team Sheet. Hardly injured. And those killers passes he made when we were in a bad spots.

  156. Gunnerdna says:

    AFCPressWatch™
    ‏@AFCPressWatch
    Sporting Lisbon appears to be willing do business with Arsenal.£12M initial payment must now be accepted for Carvalho. TPO makes deal hard

  157. snaparse says:

    sorry ts I totally agree with Rico Lol……song was our DM or that was how it was on paper you could see he hardly stayed there instead he was so further up it wasn’t funny now I’m not saying he is a bad player but positional discipline is something he lacked throughout his career even when he plays for Cameroon he shows it……it was good riddance IMO and arteta has done a very good job whilst not as agile or quick on the floor shows you how bad song was as a DM for us

  158. rico says:

    AW said in an interview on the official site Ts, I’ll see if I can find it, not to prove a point but you’d be interested…

  160. tsgh says:

    Fair enough Snap.. but watch the video below with an open mind and then still tell me Song was the pivot…

    Imo, when his colleagues in midfield went forward he covered but when he did his colleagues did not reciprocate…

  162. Gunnerdna says:

    Kristof Terreur @HLNinEngeland

    Also I can confirm Romelu Lukaku is joining Everton: 5 year deal. #EFC

  164. George says:

    Hi ginge… i reckon there is an outside chance for hayden. wenger seems to rate him.

    Rico, Spurs will destroy Morgan..not a nice way to leave a club after 6 years though…i suspect Katrina Liebherr is not helping things there at Southampton. They are my favourites to get relegated and I fear Koeman won’t last till xmas….

    That lot down the road make are actually better than us at destroying players…Look at Lamela and Soldado…at least we got a few games out of Arshavin lol…Even if he did save his best for Barca and the dippers.

  165. rico says:

    Did we make a £12 million bid for Carvalho Gdna?

    I thought he had a clause in his contract for £30+ million?

  167. Nickie says:

    in the 14 seconds I managed to watch before it started buffering on these poor work computers I have come to the conclusion that those 14 seconds were better than this whole season for Jack (Barring Norwich goal) lol

  168. rico says:

    Agree George, the club sadly fell into the wrong hands…..

    Football is cut throat I guess, Morgan can see all around him crashing down and he wants out….

  169. tsgh says:

    No problem Rico.. I was not dubting you btw.. was just trying to say I thought AW rated/trusted him enough to play CB on several occasions including UCL games…

  170. Gunnerdna says:

    Rico, £12 million is suppose to be the 1st part of the payment.

    AFCPressWatch™
    ‏@AFCPressWatch
    The reported transfer fee, in one payment, for Carvalho is £24M, according to an earlier report in Portugal. #AFC was hoping 2 spread in two

  174. snaparse says:

    ts the whole team that day played really well so I can’t really say he was bad…….song isn’t a bad player don’t get me wrong he just didn’t have the positional discipline required of a DM or even a box to box midfielder I’m surprised you try to defend him seeing as you know much about tactics and all but I guess you see what I don’t see so…..

  175. rico says:

    It’s a bit different when playing CB though I guess, you know you have to defend and haven’t really got the opportunities to bomb forward, well, unless you are TV of course… But I guess he just got a bit ahead of himself in midfield and put his defensive duties behind him. Wouldn’t have been as bad if he had the pace to get back but he didn’t.

    On top of that, his tackling was very suspect and how many times did he give away silly fouls in very dangerous areas…

    Anyway, he’s someone else’s worry thankfully…

  176. NashuaGunners says:

    T’s.That video or that particular game was a joy to watch. When Gunners in their best even Heaven can’t compare.

  177. tsgh says:

    True George. I posted that video to show 2 things… that he played his best football next to Song and aslo show in JW’s first season he was a DM or deep lying playmaker…

    Also on the subject of AR16 being played in the wrong position…. if we can recall he played as the no.10 behind RVP the season where Robin scored the 30 odd goals….

    The only different to AR16’s game is what Scott, Dev had been saying all along… keeping it simple…

    Back on that video, it goes to show that when JW plays the 2 in midfield around him have to bend over backwards for him tactically…

    JW has always done things his way i.e he gets the ball and try to get to the opposition.. it may work most times but not all the time… imho and that is not meant to be a criticism.

    doubting*

  178. Tai Emeka Obasi says:

    Good afternoon Rico, all,

    Very sorry I’ve not been around. Duty calls.

    Thanks all for the comments on the post. Too many to start responding serially. One thing though, any footballer who can kick a ball can play in any position besides goalkeeping. My belief is – do not tweak players around just for the sake of it. If for instance, we’re playing and P Mert suddenly gets injured or red carded…Giroud can be called back to play at CB to finish the game. But when you go out there, spend some substantial sum on Giroud, then start tweaking around the defense, it means challenging God. A man/woman must have a particular thing him/she is best at. Work towards making him/she blossom in that for the watching world. No footballer plays perfectly in more than one position. I’ll stick him that his perfect position until I have an emergency…Shweinistieger and Kroos in World Cup final for one.

  184. tsgh says:

    lol Ng… amazing indeed.

    lol Snap- there is no denying Song can be ill discipline.. AW knew that that is why he said Song will be a DM when he is more matured…

    I think it is about context Snap; I have always said I don’t want Song back because of how he left.. but I wouldn’t be me if I don’t debate his contribution…

    Song did the same for Ox too. check video below…

  186. Gunnerdna says:

    Ts, If AFC doesn’t get a powerful MF, JW game will remain the same, he was playing with better players than we have now.

    2010
    __________________Shez
    Eboue____Djourou______Kos______Clichy
    __________________Song
    ________Fabregas_______Wilshere
    Walcott__________RVP_____________Nasri

    2014
    __________________Shez
    Debuchy____Mer______Kos_______Gibbs
    _________________Arteta
    ________Ramsey__________Ozil
    Sanchez_________Giroud________Cazorla

  187. snaparse says:

    does arsene tell wilshere to keep it simple and play safe?…..we can blame wilshere all we want but if he keeps doing the same thing and gets picked it shows the boss clearly thinks he is doing nothing wrong I think arsene should tell wilshere what his role is in the team and if he doesn’t do as told he should be benched imo…….I’m not a criticism between

  188. Tai Emeka Obasi says:

    However, Dev got me on his 2.05 re Song.

    The camerounian is the worst ingrate that has gone through Wenger. With history of how he came to Arsenal and how Wenger continuously lost Arsenal matches and points after Flamini’s exit until Wenger stabilised…and even became the best DM in England, then left at Barca’s first enquiry…I’d rather we go to relegation that having Song back. I’d take all past players back, including Nasri, RVP, Adebayor…but still say no to Song!

  192. tsgh says:

    lol Dna.. you don’t think Debuchy is better than Eboue?

    Personally I rated Eboue.. he was the Mr Versatility for us and was even voted into the UCL team of the year at RB..

    He ended up the fall guy after being played RW, DM, no.10, LW etc…

    Only 2 players in that team may be considered better than what we have now imo….

    Personally, I think Nasri is a better all round player than SC19…

  196. rico says:

    I’m not sure I agree there Gdna, I’d say we have better players now than back then…

    RvP as striker apart…

  198. Tai Emeka Obasi says:

    Rico, Song was about the best DM in EPL the season he left. his telepathic lobbed passed for RVP’s crackers can’t be forgotten in a hurry…even though Song would tend to try to unnecessarily shied the ball in dangerous areas where a simple safe pass would have sufficed.

    I never believed Song would ever leave Arsenal! He’s the last I would ever forgive.

  199. tsgh says:

    lol Dna… agreeing with me.. 😛

    Joking aside… its all good debate… that is what makes HH special… no name calling etc…

    The player is gone; as I have said numerous times I don’t want him back… my whole argument is that he was not meant to sit; the same way even so called pundits and managers contest Khedira is a DM but Alonso had to correct them by telling them Modric was the DM…

  205. NashuaGunners says:

    Tai. I know is you opinion on Song, but those players you named are worse of than Song.

  206. Tai Emeka Obasi says:

    Falls to pattern…I can bet everything Everton didn’t pay that much for Lukaku…why is it Chelsea sells whenever they’re after a player? Now, the Miranda cash is here!

    FFP is just a caricature. Teams are getting away with robbery and laughing in Platini’s face. PSG is doing it with loan deals…Chelsea is ‘selling’ their players at skyrocket prices!

  207. snaparse says:

    song was overrated IMO Rico and we as a team have moved on so its better things stay as they are at this rate I wouldn’t want any of rvp song cesc or nasri back just because of the way they left nothing to do with ability as we need an rvp and nasri in our current team

  208. Gunnerdna says:

    Rico, all AW teams have weakness, 2010 team was weak defensively and good in attack, while 2014 is the opposite. If Debuchy dose’t learn quickly when to push forward and when to sit BFG will be in big trouble, that’s another problem.

  209. snaparse says:

    to be honest I felt very sad when nasri left even more so than I did when rvp and cesc left as I thought he was really going to explode with us so much talent and promise

  212. tsgh says:

    Snap, re your question… can you believe AW will say JW’s best position is as a DM if JW will be required to play the same way; at his age he need to learn how to play a position…?

    He may be 22 but he has made over 100 appearances at the very top level..

    Some people may not like me saying this but JW will be persisted with no matter what as he is English.. a player of his calibre will cost £25m at least but if I had a chance to choose between him or Barkley I know who I will pick now…

  216. rico says:

    And me snaparse…

    Gdna, I don’t think we’ll need to worry about Debuchy.

    We’ll have to differ re the stronger of the two sides but I know I much prefer the look of the one that is currently being put together…

  217. Wavy says:

    Of Cavani, his age is in dispute! Some think he is considerably older than 27, more like 30+, allegedly

  218. tsgh says:

    Seriously though Ng, that is one reason I am apprehensive about Debuchy… fingers crossed he steps up quickly…

  219. rico says:

    I can’t agree Ts, Jenks is living proof that being English counts for nothing and he and Jack are the same/similar age…

  220. NashuaGunners says:

    Eboue is a better player than Debuchy and Jenk if he could use his brain more often. We fans are fickle when it come to players. Just look at Theo. with OM, he went missing 3/4 of the game but end up scoring that day.

  221. NashuaGunners says:

    T’s. He almost causes two pens with Klose and Muller. Besides BS’s age, he is not an upgradfe.

  222. Wavy says:

    Chelsea can have Cavani, for me. He was distinctly un impressive during WC. In fact he reminded me of Torres! Neither of them could hit a barn door from a foot leave alone a goal of 8×3!

    Not in my Arsenal dream team!

  225. tsgh says:

    Good point Rico… but maybe because CJ25 is a defender so has less room for errors…

    I know I may lack credibility but from day 1, I always said that CJ25 will go when Brady is gone… 😉

  228. snaparse says:

    I guess u might have a point ts but I just wanted to look at things from another perspective

  230. tsgh says:

    Ng… I rest my case… 😉

    Also Debuchy cost more money than would have been to keep Sagna…

    Just because he got in front of Sagna does not make him better imho…
    Same as Sakho is preferred over Kosser…

    He is ours now so fingers crossed he steps up…

    I would have preferred JJanmaat personally. I am of the opinion that the kamikaze type RB bombing forward that gets us exposed will come back to haunt us again but fans are happy so why be a kill-joy myself…:-)

  234. Hell Raising Devil says:

    Ginge….I am like you as well. Janmaat over Debuchy all day long. I believe he would have been better for us.

  238. tsgh says:

    lol Dna… next you might believe in stats. 😛

    Dev… you brought me up to speed with Janmaat so…

  240. BrainwashedKev says:

    Rico, it’s baking in London now…

    The breeze has gone and it’s humid…

    I need a Camberwell Peroni or four…. 😉

  241. Gunnerdna says:

    Ts, don’t involve in your stats argument bro, you know boss lady don’t roll like that, i ain’t coming to the bin with u. lol

  242. snaparse says:

    most teams have full backs that are attacking I think that is why most fans want our DM sorted out barca Madrid Munich even dortmun have full backs who are very attacking minded like I always say either replace merts with a more pacy player or replace arteta IMO

  246. BrainwashedKev says:

    Coach, do you think that the def-mid, we think of, like Pogba I suppose, do you think that teams have moved on from that kind of player and that maybe, Wenger was ahead of the rest when he utilised Arteta in that role?

  247. tsgh says:

    😛 😛 Dna…

    Snap, BVB and BM in the last stage of last season canned the attacking FB’s at least on both sides…

    Germany played 2 CB on the flanks.. even when Lahm went to RB he did not attack much as he normally did… note how the best German RB/LB in the Bundesliga, Grosskreutz did not get a game whilst Howedes and Boateng were persisted with…

    Klopp even said last January that it is very unfair for coaches to expect FB to defend and attack; he said he would play 3-5-2 if he expected his fb’s to attack or provide width…

    Pep played 3 at the back on Saturday with a 4th DM making the diamond.

    Also Zabeleta did not attack as much in the world cup for that reason…

  248. Hell Raising Devil says:

    it does not mean I like it Kev.

    That is why I prefer the Alps in summer. but this year its a no go for me. 🙁

    the heat kills me every summer. The summer means that I get higher temperatures and I suffer a lot.

  249. BrainwashedKev says:

    Even Vidal, who most on here seemed to agree was the most effective in that role, even he is a very technical player and not, dare I say, a wardrobe… 😀

  251. Hell Raising Devil says:

    Pogba is a more B2B player imo.

    We need a younger version than Arteta for that position. The likes of Gilberto are long gone……a player who sits in front of the defence providing a curtain.

    However we need one who is intelligent (Arteta) can give killer passes from a deep midfield position (Petit) and support the attack by providing triangles so that he can give one touch passes in crucial areas.

    We had one such player.

    Unfortunately he only played 20 minutes. In those 20 minutes I liked the player and what he gave. And he could tackle well.

    Enter the name……….SEBASTIAN PEREZ.

  253. tsgh says:

    lol Papa” Bouba Diop- the wardrobe… lol

    Cruyff mastered the deep -lying playmaker by making Pep a light weight his DM for the all conquering Barca team…

    Ancelloti took it further bt turning Pirlo into a DM… a player who is slower than Arteta and can’t tackle but is considered the best in that role…

    Van Gaal also converted Schweinsteiger from A LW to DM because he had the brains…

    Pep then converted Lahm an all action attacking RB to a CM…

    Vidal plays very similar to Ramsey… Pirlo plays DM for Juve…

  255. tsgh says:

    Totally agree Dev re Seb Perez…

    The work permit rejection killed his career he failed to make Colombia squad…

  256. NashuaGunners says:

    Well I still trying to “Know my football” and I see it a simple game whereby the other team is trying everything to out smart the other. I not hope to see eleven Messi in every positions or eleven Ronaldo in every positions. But eleven players with the attitude and determination of C.Jenkinson and those that would say ‘kill me first’ before you pass and score.

  257. tsgh says:

    Dev, we have Olsson who can do the Arteta and did that against WBA in the CoC last season but AW does not rate him… it seems.

  258. snaparse says:

    fair enough ts but seeing as we just bought debuchy do you think Wenger is planing on using 3 at the back?

  260. tsgh says:

    Snap- Dev, thinks Aw will never play 3 at the back (unless we are winning)so I will go with that too.

    From the NYRB game I did not see anything but the same flat back 4 which ends up a back 2 exposing us so often against the bigger teams…

    Maybe the Emirates cup will tell us something different…

  261. BrainwashedKev says:

    Ok Coach, then long-term, could either Olsson or Zelalem develop into that type of player???

    Do you think that Carvalho is capable of playing that role?

    And what about Wilshere, if he could curb the reckless tackles, learn some discipline, does he not have the passing range to play that role?

  262. Gunnerdna says:

    Ts, i think Pirlo looks good at DM because of the system Juve useS, most teams in the Serie A plays defensively so they get away with Pirlo playing DM and using the 3-5-2 formation, but in the CL against attacking teams they fall to pieces.

  263. Gunnerdna says:

    Sport Witness @Sport_Witness

    Record say Manchester United, Arsenal, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Atletico Madrid and Valencia all interested in Carvalho.

  264. Gunnerdna says:

    Sport Witness @Sport_Witness

    Interesting part is that Record say ‘this newspaper knows it (fee) will never be less than 25m Euros’ – Sounds like price is tumbling.

  265. snaparse says:

    that is what makes a player like busquet so vital most often he acts like a 3rd center back for barca and allow their full backs attack maybe that is what Wenger sees in cavalho? I love pogba but I’m not sure he can work with Ramsey will love to be proved wrong but at the same age veira who people compare pogba to was much much defensively maybe that aspect of his game will come with time but I think he just relies on his size most times

  266. tsgh says:

    Snap- AW believes the best form of defence is attack…
    I have mentioned it before but even RM started more defensive players against us and still won…

    The reason is because when we play 4 at the back we never have 4 at the back but 2 most times.
    with 3 at the back you have an extra man to play the sweeper plus your 2 wing backs to attack and drop back to make it 5 if needed.

    Against BM when we went 1 man down.. I still believe AW should have gone 3 at the back and gone 5 in midfield to combat BM..

    He went 4-4-1 but because we could not have the ball BM had 6 in midfeld.. 2 extra men who still came into our box…

  267. BrainwashedKev says:

    If my memory serves me right, Gilberto Silva started out as a centre-back, was converted to def-mid and the rest is history.

  268. tsgh says:

    I agree to an extent Dna but Pirlo looks good in the UCL and internationals too…

    3-5-2 wont work all the time but will work in games where opposition play 2 upfront imo… Dev may have a different view…

    As I said even before Italy played their first game in the wc… without Montolivo who is similar to Vidal or even Ramsey; the midfield 3 of de Rossi, Pirlo and Motta was like Arteta and Flamini with JW. No one was there doing the donkey work needed…

  270. rico says:

    If memory serves me right, Johan Djourou started out as DM but converted to CB…

    The rest really was history… 😉

  272. tsgh says:

    Dunga converted Gilberto to DM in 2001/2002; He said then that he could see Gilberto doing for Brazil what he did for Brazil in 1994.

    Gilberto was slightly attacking when he joined us that was why he scored on his debut in the community shield…

    Also the reason Fergie thought he had gotten the better midfielder in Kleberson…

    Aw made him a CB later on the reason why he left us… he played as a CM at Panathinaikos and Minero; the position he started his career before Dunga made him his reflection.

  273. Hell Raising Devil says:

    imo Olsson is a TR07 clone. Yes he can play that position well. I hope he is not released or sold.

    What irks me is that while morons like Bendy and sickos like Diaby are kept on, good players are moved or not rated so that it will not kill the career of someone who is either a dickhead, a sicko or a turncoat who will skeedaddle off at the first sniff of Barca DNA or money.

    How many careers were killed because of Cesc, Bendy and Diaby?

  278. Hell Raising Devil says:

    I said it yesterday Ginge that 3-5-2 will not work over a whole season. After October teams will start sussing that out.

    So use 3-5-2 by all means……….but only during certain games, crucial moments and as a plan B.

  280. tsgh says:

    lol… rico… I make a living out of that… you are too hawk eyed. 🙂

    I even managed to get the IEEE to publish a couple of papers without them knowing it was all cut and paste… 😛

  281. snaparse says:

    agree ts Wenger has his beliefs even at Monaco he played the same total football……I’m not sure he will change anything but he just needs to buy the personnel needed to play such way

  285. tsgh says:

    Wath is Carvalho’s aent btw… get him to reduce his demands… 😉

    personally, I think the 3rd party ownership rules us out…

  287. tsgh says:

    agent*

    Snap- you reminded me Montolivo is pushing 30 so I guess that is him ruled out…

    Pjanic played DM last weekend; he looked good…

    He is an AFC supporter too…

  289. Nickie says:

    Pjanic looks great, can play either role in CM B2B or CDM…looks full of energy and technically great. Wouldn’t mind him

  294. snaparse says:

    ts montolivo is getting on but he could still do a job for us but if we get a good long term solution I’m all for it

  297. tsgh says:

    Yes rico… he is the one… top player

    AW had a bid for him accepted but allegedly his dad is an AS Roma fan so he did not tell him that he had a choice between Roma and us…

  299. Rick says:

    Afternoon Rico and the House.
    Good post TSO, another good read.
    Another shocker in the test match Rico Dhawan was plumb.
    India look like they are batting in a minefield.
    I am reading todays debate, Ginge my only comment
    Any idea if Gabi is available?

  300. Gunnerdna says:

    Bayern Munich have rubbished claims they are interested in Real Madrid star Sami Khedira.

    The midfielder has just a year left to run on his contract, resulting in speculation in the Spanish media that he could play out down his deal and sign for the Bavarians on a free transfer next summer.

    His position at Madrid has become increasingly uncertain following the signing of Toni Kroos from Bayern, but the club’s CEO, Karl-Heinz Rummenigge, has denied any interest in the player.

    When asked about the rumours surrounding Khedira, he said: “That is a myth.”

  301. rico says:

    Oh I don’t take all that’s written to seriously about us bidding for players etc. Most of it is made up I’m sure…

  302. Tai Emeka Obasi says:

    Pogba? Never a DM in imho. He is a classic box-to-box player with almost everything good about the position.

    Wilshere? A great player, who just needs to be ‘pitch-wise’ – learn to play simple, jump over tackles and don’t tackle when it’s potentially dangerous. Better lose the match and have the chance to fight another day than break your leg, lose the match too and get off the team for a long spell.

  303. snaparse says:

    Lol Rico I knew you would come around seriously I don’t think we need to spend big on a DM we can get cheap really good ones like gonalos who I think is very good much like busquet tactically astute and covers well for the full backs

  304. rico says:

    Afternoon Rick, spot on re Dahwan. I like Hussain and Beefys idea that if the Indians don’t want to use VRS that’s fine, but we should…

  313. Gonerjoe says:

    Missed the wicket I was watching the woman boxers on the BBC nothing like watching boxers knock 7 bells out of one an other. 🙂

  316. rico says:

    Joe, I didn’t see that story… 😉 Tsk tsk re the boxing 😉

    Evening Adam.

    Well said Kevin Campbell. Always loved him….

  318. Tai Emeka Obasi says:

    So, in actual sense, we’ve only brought in Sanchez…Debuchy is only replacing Sagna…and we all agree he is not a step-up, Ospina is replacing Fabianski and not expected to be first choice. Chambers replacing Jenkinson/TV… have we really strengthened?

  321. rico says:

    Adam, that’s my thought too. It’s quite clear that the club are working hard to finally get us a deep/strong squad. Let them get to end of the transfer window and then judge…

    Right now, I’m more than happy…

  324. rico says:

    I read earlier about how it’s cost more to sign Debuchy than it would have to keep Sagna.

    Reality is, we have signed a younger player, so we should get and extra 2/3 years out of him…

    Makes sense imo…

    Not really quite sure why anyone is worrying about his arrival…

  326. Hell Raising Devil says:

    Debuchy is an upgrade on Sagna….the French coach thinks so.

    Chambers is an upgrade on Tommy V……he can play multiple positions and he is English as well

    Sanchez is an upgrade on all that we have

    Ospina is also an upgrade and a challenge. Ches himself said so when he said that he misses the (non) challenge of Flappy. With the latter Ches was always secure. Now Ospina is there and he has played on a stage Ches has not….the WC

    yes we have replaced like for like……but better

    Why is it that whatever we do we always grumble.

    Yes I would like to have a team of

    Cech
    Alves, Hummels, Koscielny,Alaba
    Lahm, Schweinsteiger
    Messi
    Ronaldo, Ibrahimovic, Bale,

    But then……….even with the above team there will always be Gunners who will grumble. Its in their nature.

    they fart grumbles all the time

  330. Rick says:

    TSO, Adam I honestly think we can say now that Arsene has
    strengthened the squad. . No Bentner no Park, we now have Campbeii and Sanchez in thier place.

  333. Tai Emeka Obasi says:

    Cool…I only asked a question…didn’t say we haven’t. To me, like DEv said, Debuchy is a step-up on Sagna…at 33 or thereabout, relying on Sagna as first choice is gradually becoming risky…and he has lost his place in the national team to his replacement, meaning it was time Sagna started thinking of retirement stuff.

    Moreover, I believe the best strengthening a team needs is making sure no important player from previous season left. That’s why I’m hoping this Carzola news turns out one those the press completely goofed on.

    However, without that DM, we may struggle!

  336. Hell Raising Devil says:

    Tai I agree with you regarding Drogba and Lukaku. The thing is that Lukaku will get money in, while Drogba will come in as free.

    That is FFP for you.

    I still would like Torres, even as he is now, however I do not want to contribute to the Chavs bank. So Torres is out of range.

  338. Hell Raising Devil says:

    Lukaku would have given us more options up front. however at that money I expect the finished article not a 20 year old.

  340. rico says:

    But in 1/2 years time Devil, he’ll be worth an awful lot of money. Chelsea have resigned Drogba, yet they let the ‘new Drogba’ leave…

    I’d have loved us to sign him…

  341. Tai Emeka Obasi says:

    Yeah, Rico…that’s why I call it ‘madness’. But it’s FFP! Drogba was bought because Mourinho needed Miranda….so, buy Drogba, sell Lukakau, then use the funds for Miranda…perfect! Until season unfolds, we know how exactly perfect!

  343. Tai Emeka Obasi says:

    Yeah, Dev, I think we could have done with Lukaku…even at this age, he’s unplayable at times, never mind his poor World Cup!

  344. rico says:

    That circle of events makes sense though Tai, every club does it. Well most. In England we say sell ‘a sprat to catch a mackerel’…

  347. Tai Emeka Obasi says:

    Yeah, Rico…I’m happy Mourinho sold Lukaku and has Drogba in his place. I’m happy too that he is now with Everton…that he gets chance at least twice this season to prove to Mourinho how wrong he was. He couldn’t do that when he was on loan.

  350. tsgh says:

    oh wee…

    Eastbourne Pier is engulfed by flames as major fire breaks out in arcade in front of horrified holidaymakers…

  354. Tai Emeka Obasi says:

    Dear me…thank God no life was lost…property can always be replaced…houses rebuilt! Still bad news…thought it was a Mr. Pier. Poor me!

  355. rico says:

    You weren’t to know Tai.

    Eastbourne is a very attractive coastal resort here in England. It’s often referred to as the place for ‘newly weds and nearly deads’. Many folk go there to retire, but many go there early in life because it’s by the sea and peaceful…

  359. tsgh says:

    Seasons 2012-2014 Schneiderlin v Carvalho v Khedira – Mins/tackle 23 v 26 v 42
    Mins/interception 29 v 60 v 65
    Duels Won % 58% v 65% v 51%

  362. Gonerjoe says:

    It’s a shame about pier at eastbourne we don’t have those kind of piers in Ireland that I know about they part of British history.

  365. Tai Emeka Obasi says:

    If a player is an expert in reading the game and difficult to beat one-on-one, it will be unnecessary for such player to be making tackles. I see tackles as being badly positioned, easily beaten, not fast enough.

    Of all the DMs linked, give me Khedira over and over again.

  367. Tai Emeka Obasi says:

    Coach, how come I missed your 11.03 comment before I rushed out in the morning. Potter’s 11.01 too. Thanks for that coach…thanks potter…and indeed everyone that commented today.

    Malaysia Airlines again?

  368. Gunnerdna says:

    Gooners, haven’t forgotten you. Khedira still 100% on, whatever anyone else tells you. @talkSPORT @SportsYapper

    — Stan Collymore (@StanCollymore) July 30, 2014

  369. Tai Emeka Obasi says:

    joe, do you guys really believe the fees quoted for out-going Chelsea players real? 50 mil for Luiz…do everyone at PSG smoke opium?

    Something fishy is going on!

  370. Nickie says:

    who’s going to believe curb crawler Collymore, he doesn’t have a clue…Pogba rumours heating up. Him, Khedira, Carvelho or Pranjic please

  371. Gonerjoe says:

    Tai
    I have no why of knowing what the real prices paid for players are but at this stage I will go with sky sports. Until clubs are forced to publish what they are actualy paying I can’t know or neither can most people.
    I made a comment around the time of Luiz’s transfer to psg that the sugar daddy clubs will start passing players between themselves for silly money. So that it will be a way of them to meet their FFP obligations.

  372. AndrewH13 says:

    Gdna, Collymore was the one who first said we were close in negotiations, let’s hope he really knows something. Was correct on Sanchez.

  373. Nickie says:

    Really liking Chambers in his interviews he seems so confident. Not a cocky confident but a good confident that seems to guarantee great performances

  375. Tai Emeka Obasi says:

    Good morning, Rico, all,

    ”I told Suarez he was too good for Arsenal…” – Gerald.

    Just how immodest could a National Team Captain be?

  376. Hell Raising Devil says:

    Good morning everyone.

    Tai…..whatever Gerrard told Suarez do we care? Would you have wanted Suarez at AFC? With all his baggage?

    The other HHers can attest that from the 1st minute Suarez was linked with us I was against him being in an AFC shirt. Imo Suarez is slimy and a snake. Do I want a player like that in our team? No and never. We have had enough of our share of people who stab us in the back.

    Liverpool and Suarez……a match for each other. whether it is made in heaven or hell that is a matter of opinion.

    But they deserved each other.

  377. Hell Raising Devil says:

    And for those who grumble about AFC ad nauseam just keep in mind that 100 years ago (yes ONE HUNDRED fekking YEARS AGO) we were looking to begin our season in division two. The last season we have been outside the top division.

    So come May we will be celebrating for sure…..100 YEARS since we left the lower divisions. In the meantime the spuddies have won the 2nd division twice, been runners up once and spent more seasons there than they have won top division leagues while the Chavs have won the 2nd division twice and been there countless times.

    Of course the spuddies and chavs are London’s top clubs…..they have won more lower division titles than AFC have done.

  384. lee says:

    Just read that Gerrard told Suarez not to go to a small club like Arsenal………….what a wanker!

  387. Hell Raising Devil says:

    good weather then Rico. Here its like that but its still early. By 13.00 we will be frying.

    Ohhhh I yearn for those lovely mountains and lakes in the Alps. To go trekking and not get a drop of sweat, with temperatures around 19 to 20 degrees, with the sun shining but still having to dress comfortably so as not to feel cold.

  388. Tai Emeka Obasi says:

    Dev, how soothing your comments re Suarez.

    My concern, and a deep one at that, is why Gerald, a Three Lions Captain, even if retired, would make a statement that could make bad blood flow within the national side.

    Liverpoolians were already drooling they provided most players for Three Lions in last World Cup until the poor showing shut those mouths up.

    The FA needs to caution Gerard, even if privately for such comments. Fans could belittle other clubs, not figures like Gerard. It’s just terrible!

  390. rico says:

    I doubt the FA would get involved Tai, they are toothless…. Also, I don’t think he’s done anything wrong, other than to be a git…

  391. Hell Raising Devil says:

    yes Rico……a matter of 200 yards from my home to the coase. 🙂

    The promenade itself stretches around 6 km in length…….that is where I do most of the jogging. With a pavement 4 metres wide there is ample space to avoid those who are walking for leisure.

  392. Hell Raising Devil says:

    however much I do try to enjoy it, I prefer the country side. I prefer the fields and valleys much more than the coast. Here we do not have mountains but they are my wildest wish.

    Mountains are perfect for trekking, abseiling and to go jogging. the natural terrain is perfect for the body’s joints. And to arrive at the top of the mountain (road or abseiling) is one of the purest joys and exhilaration one can experience.

  393. Tai Emeka Obasi says:

    Not doing anything wrong, Rico? Really? I see it differently…I would want any Arsenal player to make such comment about any club. When Wilshere made the statement regarding players nationalising for England with Januzjai in mind, there were a lot of public debate. I’m waiting to see the commentaries on Gerard’s unguarded statement!

  395. rico says:

    How lovely Devil, I’d love to be that close to the sea, I’d be in it all day 😉

    Mountains not for me, I don’t like heights… lol

  396. tsgh says:

    I bet Ath Madrid are licking their lips at the prospects of a bidding war between Yanited and Chelsea for Miranda…

    Good morning Rico, Tai, Dev et al

  397. rico says:

    Tai, I think it’s disrespectful to make such a comment, but that’s about it. He’s been really really stupid…

  399. Tai Emeka Obasi says:

    Morning Ts…

    Seems Khedira is getting stronger…you think this time it’s for real?

  401. Adam says:

    Morning Rico and all. Tai, for those of us who have lived in the UK during Gerard’s spell in the limelight and witnessed his utterings for years, there are one or two inescapable conclusions that have been drawn. Firstly, that he wears the Anfield badge of entitlement prominently and draws from it’s rather needy pool of stagnant water quite frequently. Secondly, that he a world-class, unmitigated, undisputed, dickhead.

  404. Hell Raising Devil says:

    Morning Ginge……I reckon we will be licking our lips as well if Barca and Yanited make a bidding war for TommyV. The problem is that from Manure I would like Smalling/Jones while Barca will take eternity to pay the money.

    Chambers is so similiar to TommyV that its obvious that the latter is going to be sold.

    imo Chambers is the Tommy V replacement not Debuchy’s reserve. Bellerin will be the reserve if Jenks goes out on loan. Expect Chambers and Hayden to be the Carling cup CB with Bellerin on the right and Monreal on the left if we get low opposition in the early rounds.

  405. Tai Emeka Obasi says:

    Sounds quite good coach…but is Bellerin truly ready? Can we line him out against, say City and rest pretty?

  408. Hell Raising Devil says:

    I said lower opposition mate. If we get City it will mean AW will revert to the best defence he has available unless he wants to throw the match.

  409. tsgh says:

    CC21 is our CB. Dev.

    AW has finished in that department…

    Bellerin will cover for Debuchy; with BFG, Kosser, CC21 and Miquel/Hayden being 4th and 5th choice if TV goes…

    Tai. I haven’t heard of AW’s interest in Sami from the folks who are normally itk yet… but media and a few twitter folks reckon its on so lets hope…
    Though, BM have denied their interest in Sami, the same folks who made me say from January that Kroos would be joining RM claim Sami is RM bound.

  412. tsgh says:

    😀 Rico… I will believe it when Metro say so…

    Tai. Pogba is more likely if Vidal stays imo

  413. Tai Emeka Obasi says:

    If CC can truly do a TV, then sell TV and retain Jenks…otherwise, sell TV, buy another 10+ mil CB, keep CC as Debuchy’s spare.

  414. Hell Raising Devil says:

    Guten abend Adam.

    What wouldn’t I give to be such a fine wordsmith like you mate.

    That concluding line about Gerrard was extremely luminous about the dickiness of such a foul specimen.

    my sides are aching with laughter.

  417. Tai Emeka Obasi says:

    Dev, I know…but if Debuchy is injure/suspended and we’re playing City…and Bellerin is his deputy…will Wenger play Bellerin or ‘convert’?

  419. rico says:

    What a dickhead:

    Silvestre, who played for Arsenal from 2008 to 2010 after almost a decade at Manchester United, is not impressed.

    “Arsenal have already got that type of player – quick, sharp, fast – they have enough of them already in Theo Walcott, Aaron Ramsey, Mesut Ozil and Santi Cazorla,” Silvestre told Goal.

    “What they really need is someone like Olivier Giroud, I think that should be their priority at the moment.

    “Sanchez could have gone anywhere after his tremendous World Cup but I do not think he is the type of player the club need right now.”

    Silvestre, who was capped 40 times by his country and went to two World Cups, also commented on the rising star of French football – Paul Pogba – who finished 38th in the Goal 50.

    “He is 21 and he has consistently been doing well over the [last couple of] years,” the 36-year-old noted.

    “The way he has been playing for Juventus is very impressive. In the near future he will be a force for France.”

  420. tsgh says:

    will*

    Talking of city, did anyone catch the game?

    Clichy has been playing RB for them…

    Fernando the octopus looked like a bouncer in the middle for them…

    Odd they lost to the bin-dippers on penalty…

  422. tsgh says:

    Lol… Silvestre lmfao… he is indeed caught in a past time…

    I liked how Bremen Chairman said he was the worst player they had signed after he left us. lol

  423. Hell Raising Devil says:

    I do not agree with that Tai……Bellerin is a very good prospect and imo he is already ahead of Jenks regarding technique. AW rates Jenks but knows like we all do that Jenks needs games. So instead of keeping him getting stale and stagnating he will loan him for a season to see how he pans out. If he cannot win a place in the WHU line up he will not manage to win a place with us. Bellerin can stay as the back up as he is on the up and we will bet to see him in the Carling cup. he will deputise for Debuchy. Bellerin is similiar to Danny Alves and is quite a good prospect. Chambers will be the third CB with Hayden as 4th.

    In the meantime Debuchy will be getting older and Bellerin as well with the added plus that he will be gaining experience. So imo AW will keep Jenks, get him in next summer…..give him a contract again and send him on loan for another season. By then Debuchy will be 31 and will be sold. Jenks and Bellerin will be ready to fight for the right back spot. That is my opinion……..but two years in football is a very long time.

  424. Tai Emeka Obasi says:

    Ts, let’s face it, without TV and Jenks, we’re short at the back! And only PM04 stands any inch above 6′.

  426. tsgh says:

    Not sure Tai. others may know more about the politics of the club than I do…

    Just adding 2+2 and getting 10. 😛

    But it was well documented that AW did not like some of his dealings re how certain hail end players were either overlooked or introduced in difficult games and then when they failed they were deemed not good enough…

    Eastmond is one example… copied from wiki- Eastmond made his first-team debut on 28 October 2009 in the League Cup against Liverpool, helping set up Arsenal’s first goal in a 2–1 victory.He made his Premier League debut against Portsmouth, coming on as an 85th minute substitute for Samir Nasri in a 4–1 win at Fratton Park on 30 December 2009.

    After signing a new long-term contract extension with the club on 13 January 2010,[9] Eastmond was handed his first Premier League start away to Bolton Wanderers on 17 January, starting alongside Cesc Fàbregas and Abou Diaby as the Gunners ran out 2–0 winners, before being replaced by Fran Mérida after 62 minutes…

    From there he was played next to Denilson in games and was made a scapegoat against better teams.

    Sanchez Watts is another one… he was tipped for big things and even Yanited wanted him but after 2 loan moves like Aneke he was allowed to leave…

  427. Hell Raising Devil says:

    Gigne……Clichy started his footballing life as a right back….his father turned him into a left back to strengthen his left.

    So in essence Clichy can play both sides of the pitch as he can play with both feet.

    But I thought that Shitty had two RBs. how come BS was not one of them???

  431. Tai Emeka Obasi says:

    Dev, another good education, your 9.32…still I’m nervous having all back ups as youngsters…an already established DM is needed should TV go. We’re all anticipating that PM04 may not be the extreme fit player he was last season…the prospect of seeing Kos paired with CC against, say, Chelsea is more than frightening!

  432. Hell Raising Devil says:

    And how do you know they have a good spring in their legs Rico???

    You keep looking at their legs????

  433. rico says:

    Tai, I’m sure by the end of the transfer window, you’ll wonder why you were ever nervous… lol

    Devil, of course, why not… 😉

  434. Adam says:

    Cheers Dev. As I write this I am staring at a computer screen riddled with self- doubt and writer’s block. T’was ever thus mate. 🙂

  438. Tai Emeka Obasi says:

    Rico,

    I’m AKB to the core…once he’s done with transfers, I look at the team and stick behind 100% but when there’s still chance for any amendment I throw my imaginations around. As long as just only TV and Jenks leave, we’re already stronger without even Sanchez.

    Keeping your best players is rule one of strengthening! We found out season after season until the last. Spurs found out last term and Liverpool will soon do when season kicks off!

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