Morning all.
The Express today write that Petr Cech is on the verge of telling Chelsea that he wants to sign for Arsenal. Whether or not Chelsea will allow him to swap London clubs remains to be seen – my fingers are firmly crossed. In fact if Roman wants to try and smooth relationships after his manager constantly puts his foot in his mouth when he opens it when talking about Arsene Wenger, they’d never be a better chance.
Geoffrey Kondogbia is bac in the headlines too, apparently Arsene Wenger really wants to sign him and it’s a battle between us and Inter Milan for his signature.
If those two players arrive real soon, this good be a very good summer.
A few days ago whilst reading an article by Kev, a question crept into my mind.
What if Arsenal were to have an Arsenal B club in the lower division or somewhere else in the world? Taking a look around Europe one can see that leading clubs in the Spanish and Dutch leagues have one thing in common. A team which is essentially their B team. Real Madrid (Real Madrid Castilla), Barcelona (Barcelona B), Ajax (Jong Ajax) and PSV (Jong PSV) to name a few all seek to farm out their promising kids to their nursery club where coaches are all instructed to play in a certain way very akin to that played by the senior club.
Those nursery clubs teams play in the same league system as the senior team rather than in a reserve team league. However, they have to play at least one league level below the main side and this means that they are ineligible for promotion to the EPL and cannot participate in the cup knock-outs.
‘What are the benefits of having a nursery club?
Arsenal as a club loans out a large number of players. Jack Wilshere was one for example but he was also one of the few exceptions. He got to play regularly for the Bolton side and although it was only for half a season he benefitted immensely. Coquelin was at Charlton until December and he was not happy when Arsene Wenger called him back since he was playing regularly and he thought that he was going to sit on the bench. Jenkinson spent a whole season playing for West Ham and I am sure that he will not want to come back an warm the bench. But for the above three there are others who do not get playing time when they are on loan and that’s a waste of talent and of course, money. We have to also take into consideration that for every player loaned out, AFC have to send a scout to monitor his progress.
So imagine that AFC have a nursery club. Arsenal B. They begin competing in the lower leagues and slowly they work their way up to the Championship. They will play week in and week out against physically grown up and tactically astute players who have the win at all costs mentality. The league level of the B Team club is actually connected with the development of the players in it, so the higher the B Team club is, the better experience and development the players loaned at them will get. The benefit of an Arsenal B playing in competitive leagues are many, but most importantly, it would give young players at our club the chance to play, week in, week out using the first team’s tactics.
However at the moment there is a slight drawback. If I am not mistaken, in the English FA you can only loan 4 players at the same time to the same club, so this rule will not allow Arsenal to lend a whole team to the B Team Club. So, either the rules have to be changed or else Arsenal have to ‘sell’ the young players and then buy them back.
Would it benefit Martinez and Macey?
If they were to be sent for a season long loan to another club who plays them they would benefit enormously but if the other club does not play them and just puts them on the bench then the only alternative is to play them at the feeder club. As Arsenal have seen many times over, and is powerless to do anything, young players have been sent out on loan but rarely get much playing time.
Such a situation would be avoided if Arsenal were to have a team B club. The result is not the end in itself. Infact it would not count at all. The development of the players would be the end in itself. The game and the result would be the means to the end.
Roberto Martinez, the Everton Manager had this to say when he was interviewed regarding the benefits of a B team:
“Young players need to play first team football, that is why we send our players out on loan and we see the real benefits. The problem is that you cannot control their way of playing in the first team. The B sides are the answer.”
So in a way, loaning out players is not 100% beneficial. But having a B team in the lower league means you can practically control the way a player plays and his development. In my opinion, Afobe and Aneke could have had a very different path in their career if Arsenal had a B team playing in the championship. I feel that both could still be at Arsenal.
And would Yaya Toure have stayed if Arsenal had a B team? Again, in my opinion, Wenger could have loaned him to the B Team and kept his eye on him for a year or two.
Whether I am right or wrong about these players is a different story. However, I feel that having a B Team will be beneficial to both Arsenal and also the other clubs in the division. Just imagine Ipswich, Nottingham Forest etc playing against Arsenal reserves and young ones.
Written by Devil.
Morning all.
Good post Devil,a subject which Potter has often talked about. Haven’t the FA poo pooed any idea of a ‘b league or b team’?
Seems the sensible way forward to me…
Morning all.
B sides are a no brainer as far as benefits are concerned.
Top post Devil 🙂
Rico, we had a good debate on the topic a few years back.
It was concluded it couldn’t happen for some reason…..which escapes me.
Good Morning lovelies and hunkies
Thanks Rico and Scott.
Interestingly Greg Dyke is in favour of it.
There is another option which I will discuss in another post.
Scott – it’s crazy though eh, Dyke talks about improving English football, but is there a better way than having a ‘B team’ playing in England?
As Devil says, not only Afobe and Aneke might still be Arsenal players, so might Lansbury and a few others as I truly believe that when players drop a level in club quality, their own game drops with it…
Who is it at the FA who are against it Devil, must be a few otherwise it would surely be considered by now..
I can not see a negative, to be honest guys.
If a club can afford to fund it, then why not?
Maybe a rule should apply that it must only include players brought through the youth ranks or something along those lines to ensure it is being titles for the correct purpose.
Rico, on players dropping a level, look at Coquelin.
He hardly set tongues wagging in any of his loan spells, yet look at him now.
Good Morning to The Lady of the House and all fellow Gooners in residence.
Devil – A great article. I agree with you 100% that it would benefit our young players and those at other BPL teams. Also, it would benefit the England teams by giving the young player higher caliber of play and accelerate their development.
However, the very big fly in the ointment is the established clubs in the lower divisions. They don’t want to share the revenue pie with any new teams and would balk at playing teams owned/operated by BPL teams with financial, player and staff resources well beyond their own. While not impossible it would probably require a large revenue injection/sharing scheme funded by the participating BPL teams.
The other way is to allow BPL teams to buy other teams in the lower divisions, but that would run afoul of UEFA/FIFA rules.
back in the 30’s when Arsenal were the top club, Margate was our feeder club, Arsenal owned shares in it, a lot of the bigger clubs had these feeder clubs, I think the FA changed the rules in the late 40’s or early 50’s
I see Afobe did not make the cut for the England U21 Euro squad, he had been in the original 26 but was one of those to miss out when the final squad was announced. Jenkinson and Chambers are in the squad
Exactly Scott, he is the perfect example. Even though Ts doesn’t rate him.. 😉
Dyke is the biggest hypocrite in football…; another clueless man using the same sound bite daily…
If Gill and Dyke were not only commercial amangers of English football there would be advocating the introduction of B teams asap…imho
Maybe after FBI completes its FIFA investigation it can also uncover the ‘doings’ of the FA and the EPL..
Dev- very naughty…have you heard the foot steps approaching your door? Its the OVRA approaching.. 😉
Rico… what have I done this time?
I rate Cj25 and Chambers…; I just think Chambers was over rated after playing 6 games. 🙂
Morning Cg..
You make a good point, if all PL clubs had a B Team playing in the Championship or below, it would mean already established clubs may have to make way, unless the FA increase the amount of clubs in the league and they won’t do that because it would make the season longer.
Maybe that’s why they won’t implement it..
Oh … yeah Le Coq is over rated… 🙂
Good point Cg…
If the FA really wanted a B team they would have introduced that when clubs started folding 10 years ago…
Eduardo – that’s amazing considering how many goals Afobe has scored this season.
You caught it then Ts.. lol
Not really a surprise that Afobe has been left out, England have included 3 players with BPL experience
Saido Berahino (West Bromwich Albion)
Danny Ings (Burnley)
Harry Kane (Tottenham Hotspur)
Read more at http://www.thefa.com/news/england/under-21/2015/jun/final-23-squad-for-euros-confirmed-020615#OUpwaMyKxsciCImf.99
Ings hasn’t scored for years… 😉
Blimey……its already 89 hours since we last lifted a cup. Tsk Tsk.
Wenger out. 😉
wenger out…
lol Rico
Eduardo- are you doing a ‘syg’ type recall or you were around in the 1930’s? 🙂
Berahino with his 20+ goals is remarkable.
How spooky. Just renewed my BT account and the gent who dealt with it all is a huge Gooner who used to play for Southend Utd….
I thought he was emulating you Ts.. 😉
Would an Arsenal B-TEAM be Brsenal all right I’ll get my coat. 😉
Rafa back to RM.lol
Brenda is a lucky man
Afternoon All…
Ginge, in response, I cannot argue from a perspective of stats, data or anything else of that particular nature.
You may or may not be right concerning that defensive merits of the major European leagues, but I did say that I haven’t followed Serie A closely for about 20 years, so you must be right on that score…
From what I understand, the deal with Higuain to Arsenal had been agreed and then at the 11th hour Madrid jacked up the price, probably due to the interest of Napoli…
It all ultimately led to us signing Mesut, and for that i am glad.
Another crazy managerial move Ts.
😀 Rico.. no my memory and stats don’t go that far into the 30’s….
Interesting reading about Richards claiming to be more tactically aware now having spent more time on the bench than…
Will you take Micah Richards at Arsenal, Rico?
As far as Benzema & Higuain being lazy Wath?
You make a good point, but tbh mate, if Benzema was really ‘that’ lazy, would he have lasted this long at a club like Real Madrid???
Ginge, I don’t really follow any other league that closely, Adam is the only mate I have, who routinely informs me about the next big thing in Spain…
My knowledge of players like Nasri, Ben Arfa, Benzema and co come courtesy of Devil and his interest in international youth football.
Coach was banging on about the above and a little later about the Belgians, who we now know, long before anyone else who I read or follow in the blog world. And being the only person who I am aware of, who actually does the job of coaching and holds a UEFA license, has my respect, when he tells me about the foreign prospects coming thru…
Tbh…….. I would rather have Berahino than Sterling. Betahino is more Drogba type…direct and strong. Sterling is a good player but not humble to learn
Hi Kev…you are right that the media reported a deal was agreed etc and the player even said he would have LOVED to join us. However, Perez also said no bid had been received from Arsenal contrary to reports and also higuain also said before the Emirates cup..
I think the truth is somewhere in between as it appears AW did not think Higuain was worth the 335m euros (instalments) Naples paid for him…
Either way Ozil was a better signing as you have said…
Rico- it goes to show how the scousers have fallen behind as a club in terms of profile; Rafa is a ‘god’ at Liverpool whilst at RM he know he would have 2 years max unless he won every year (the treble). lol
Carragher and co still think we are in the 80’s though…
Holy mudder of Gawd Kev. That is a ringing endorsement on me. Thanks mate.
Hinge….I would take Richards. And sell Debuchy.
Don’t know how he’s been playing this season Ts, so can’t answer that really…
I would love it if Hugo lloris leaves the scums…
He wants out according to the papers.
Your welcome Coach, and I’ve just read your post, it’s really very good… 🙂
Ginge not hinge. Damned spell check
Thanks Kev. Doing another one similar to today’s as well. Regarding the youth set up as well
He hardly played Rico…
I would too.. I think he might be over his injuries.
Is he a gooner too?
Don’t ManCity have two or three ‘feeder clubs’ in other parts of the world?
With his bottomless pockets I would have thought that Abramovitch would have a couple of feeder clubs if he thought it was beneficial?
I used to think that the Football Combination did a fairly good job at bringing thru young players.
During the 1930’s and up until the late 50’s early 60’s Arsenal had a nursery club in the form of Margate FC…
So it’s been done before…
FA charge Jack with miss conduct for saying shit
Dev- the type/mixture of goals Berahino scores is quite interesting in my view.
He is Defoe mkII
Joe- very sad state of affairs…
Charge Jack??? And what of the abuse AW had to endure?? From supporters and even mourinho.
Get a life FA wankers
How many of you prefer Berahino instead of Sterling?
Dev- I am with you on Berahino.
I like sterling but he wouldn’t really add much to the team as we have Ox and Serge who can do similar jobs.
Ah, Eduardo beat me to the Margate point.
tsgh, have you thought about changing your name to RoboGooner ?
He did Kev-
referring to 30’s says a lot. 😉 Even Syg’s history classes ends in the 50’s. :-0
Typical FA, everyone has forgotten about Jacks comments, but now those tossers have rehashed it all again…
Maybe Jack should refuse to play for England?
On a serious note, do you know why the b team idea was discontinued by Arsenal in the 50s’?
I wonder if Wavy is out on his skates again?
Misconduct
I think I once went out with miss conduct
Nice thoughtful post, thanks :). And the ideas in it would certainly help both Arsenal club and young players. The problem is not Arsenal or the PL, and even Dykes, but that the majority of clubs in the lower leagues have to vote in favour, and this is not accepted currently. The full argumentation is here: http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/may/08/premier-league-division-b-teams-fan-commission-greg-dyke-league-three-non-eu-players
Afternoon, good post, I would like a 2nd Arsenal team.
@rici, did chap who played for Southend say his name?
Roger- Personally, I can not stand Dyke especially the idea of introducing the maximum 2 non-EU quota.
Football should be about ability and talent and not where one is lucky to be born or the passport they hold.
Without sounding like a red wearing-left-leaning socialist, in my view Sky and the FA are happy to take TV money from every corner of the earth but fail to appreciate that for most people in the 3rd world, Asia, South America and even remote parts of Europe, sports especially football is the only means by which the likes of Alexis, Kanu’s, Drogb, Cisse, Jouginho, Batistuta, Maradona etc were able to lift their communities outside the poverty line.
Considering football was the last area where there were no class issue or barriers imposed I find it appalling as a football lover that the FA led FIFA haters are keen on making world football a sort of capitalist and pseudo-fascist environment.
The FA go on about FIFa and their ill doings however no matter how one looks at it FIFA allowing Qatar to host the world cup has provided jobs for several desolate folks in the Philippine, Sub continent are of Asia to name a few gain a reasonable income to provide for their families in a world on a slippery slope to self destruction through selfishness and greed.
FIFA and their bribery at least gives kids in the likes of Fiji and the likes the ability to kick football instead of oranges…
The funny thing is if the FA were into anything other than their fat pockets they would be starting their campaign from home by helping inner London and other poorer UK inner cities by giving some of the TV cash to the grass roots.
Thinking about it I am not keen on further amassing power for the select few at the top of the game for the billionaires.
All this B team stuff will do is cause more smaller sea-side teams to go bust as the EPL clubs will buy the better lower league players for the B-squad.
England barely had any foreigners in the 70’s and 80’s but still flopped big time at any major tournament.
What the FA should be doing is subsidising the cost of earning a coaching badge so that regular folks with a love for the game can afford to become coaches and bring new ideas instead of the same ex-players with the same ideas rehashing the same old rubbish from yester-years.
Hey Micko… howdy?
Many more: Athletic Bilbau B, FC Porto B, Benfica B, sporting B, Braga B, Marítimo B. Vitória Guimarães B….
They can’t play in the first division even they win the second league. anyway, they can be relegate.
The players can be call at the middle of the season or when the first team need them. Moreover, there also players in the squad of the first team who can play there.
:
Maybe the FA can start by making sure football is played at 3pm only and not at stupid o’clock so that people on the other side of the world can watch a big game.
I think the smaller clubs should band together and ensure that this farcical idea to lay waste a beautiful game for everyone rich or poor is curbed.
All this attempt to provide a few more players for biannual summer tournaments has little to do with national pride but to further swell the coffers of the FA and UEFA.
Imo, the chaos the WC in brazil caused to locals far outweighs the pros’ the visitors/spectators provided when you consider the amount of money the likes of the FA made from the competition.
Interesting how England flopped but the players made more money than Argentina and majority of teams bar Germany through sponsorship alone.
What is the point in trying harder if one can make more money playing 3 games for England in the wc and go on holiday afterwards..
Hi tsgh, heard the win against Villa was the first cup final we’ve won playing in yellow since 1979……amazing that !
An example dyke should be following is just across the channel into Germany.
The Bundesliga and second Bundesliga spend 75m Euros a year on local footballing education camps and charge far less than at their gates.
Their games are also scheduled for the people and not on TV revenue…
Bundesliga’s regulations, enforce the 50+1 rule. This states that members of a club must retain at least 51% ownership, so preventing any single entity taking control. The only exception is if a company is supporting football in a club for more than 20 years then it can acquire the majority stake.
What the Bundesliga rules does is allow the prospect of any and all its clubs mounting a realistic tilt at the title. Irrespective of these rules Germany is still able to win u-17,u-19 titles as well as the EC and European cups…
I still can’t understand how it cost me less to go and watch BVB than to travel with Arsenal to watch sunderland…
Interesting how the total attendance in our league 1 was under 200k whilst in Germany it was 3 times more than that in an equivalent league.
__________________________________
Enough ranting.. later. 🙂
Even BVB 09 II do not produce any players into the A team as like FC Munchen II, they are not allowed higher than the third tier…
Also Germany is finally starting to move away from B teams because they don’t actually work. Bayer Leverkusen and Eintracht Frankfurt have withdrawn their B teams.
I didn’t know that Micko.
Hey TSGH, your 3:35 pretty much hits it on the head why lower league teams wont allow B teams, because it squeezes them out (they think) and changes the character of their leagues.
One more point, the proposals were for a new League Three – Im not sure what that means in footballing quality terms…but I would hope an Arsenal B team would have far more quality in it than a League Three… which begs the question how much it would even benefit Arsenal.
I also note this guardian poll: http://www.theguardian.com/football/poll/2014/may/08/fa-commission-greg-dyke-b-team-premier-league-hodgson which found 74% of respondents against the proposal, which is at least a rough indication of feelings on the matter.
Oh, and if you ask me how to improve English football? A big part is artificial (ie perfect) pitches. Where I am living in Amsterdam there are tonnes of them, at every club. Young players (and older like me) all play football on the ground and learn all the basic passing patterns and control and skills. No more muddy pitches, cancellations, kick-and-chase long balls and general crappy play.
Dutch football even at your average club resembles dutch style football of pass and move total football. You just cant do this as a kid on most pitches you are served up. Yes, good coaching is a big part of it, but pitches are a neccessary component. So my point is not that artificial pitches are better than good grass (they arent), but that quality artificial pitches that simulate grass are FAR better than crappy grass/mud pitches which are not suitable for the majority of young players to learn to play on. Remember you need pitches that you can train on 2x a week and play on. Grass gets ripped up in winter.
Another great project is Cruyff Courts, which can be found in many many neighbourhoods, where local kids practice their skills in the streets every day. http://www.cruyff-foundation.org/en/cruyff-courts/
Didn’t know you lived in Amsterdam…
I am familiar with the dutch set-up as I know the Belgians’ have copied that approach…
Yeah, I live in Amsterdam half the time, and the other half Im nomadic 😉
Evening guys, have we signed Messi yet? Lol
‘I am familiar with the dutch set-up as I know the Belgians’ have copied that approach’…
Would that involve a red light Ts? Lol
You only get the red light if youve been a bad boy Rico!
All I can find about Messi and Arsenal is that we missed out on the ‘New’ Messi, Paulo Dybala, who has gone to Juve. Looks like a good player. Shall I google the next Ronaldo now?
Flight landed and now on apt balcony. Simple answer to the B team problem. How about a B team league. ……. .. oh we used to have them.
Can’t believe the FA have charged Jack for his Totts comments…
What, in Amsterdam Roger? Lol
🙂 Roger…
Holidays Potter? Hope it’s warm and sunny…
B league has to be the way forward….
Damn, red light for Jack!
He’d love that… Lol
Good article and an intriguing idea. Having young players play competitive football is beneficial for all those involved with a club as players can develop, have a stage to show their talents and managers can make better informed decisions about the club’s youth. Even if the youth fail at their clubs, with the tutelage they’ve received they can still make a bright future for themselves, like Alvaro Morata for example.
Having clubs in overseas leagues is also a good idea. Along with Jong Ajax, Ajax are also majority owners of Ajax Cape Town. A team in the South African Premier Soccer League and from there they have unearthed talents such as Benni McCarthy – who went on to win the Champions League with Porto and even have a stint in the PL, Steven Pienaar, and Thulani Serero who is still on their books and has notable talent shown when he got the man of the match award in Ajax’s victory over Barcelona in the CL a while back. All those players got a chance on the big stage because of playing for Ajax Cape Town and Ajax Amsterdam gets fed competent players which is a good thing for them since many players have seen Ajax as just a stepping stone of late. Although some have made the foolish step down to Tottenham – Speaking of which, you forgot to mention Real Madrid’s C team, the spuds.
Jeez Rico.As Micko will say wash your mouth with soap…
Dev- what do you think of icardi?
He want golden boot with 38 y.o Luca Toni
Why Ts? Must be your filthy mind…..
🙂 virg re the Totts….
Kev, I’m back! I’ve been ‘rolling my own’ all day. I’m a competent road rider now. I can catch any skate boy rider! Specially cab riders!!
🙂 wavy.
All quiet here so catch up tomorrow..
Night folks, thanks for today Devil..
Night all….
Yes Rico out here in sunny Catalonia for final party. Estrella going down well . I am keeping my preferences to myself but enjoying the party atmosphere.
I’m envious Potter, I love Estrella City, I have a friend in Villadecans (spelling) – lovely place…. You enjoy and rest well….
Looks like if you want to hold the world cup you had to pay bribes to the leechs on the FIFA executive committee all the way back to France 1998 no wonder the French voted for Blatter.
Nice one Wavy…
I fell off of my scooter today…
Yeah, that Estrella is very nice Rico…
Not many pubs around here sell it sadly.
Actually only one…
Kev 10.00, big respect mate, not easy when your carrying a micro-wave oven on your shoulder !
tsgh, I’m with you bruv, lets not stoop down to rico’s level, btw how did you get on with that window cleaning job vacancy in Amsterdam, any feed back ?
Tomorrow. I’m mostly rolling down the …..half pipe!
Then I shall mostly be blogging about the Arsenal. See you there.
Night all
Bottles Kev… 🙂
Micko, that would be difficult at my height.. lol
Morning all..
Morning Rico…
Bottles indeed… 🙂
Morning All.
It’s a very warm sunny day in London Town.
Morning Kev, beautiful here too… 🙂
Morning all, I wonder what the gift of FIFA will give us today on that the FA are just as bad McNair can break or badly damage Jack’s ankle nothing no card of any colour.
He says the word sh*t once and you all know the rest…….
Morning Rico, kev and all..
Its a beautiful day
I woke up again, I can talk and say,
Its just a beautiful day.. 😉
Tsgh have you got any stats to back that up 🙂
🙂 I am working on that one Joe…
Morning Joe, Ts.
I need temps, sun burn index, wind speeds and cloud cover. 😉
That’s the thing Mick, Currys had sold out…
I always considered myself a Rumbelows man in any case….
Morning Rico
Milner has agreed Liverpool move.
Good Morning Lovelies and Hunkies.
Bentaleb mentioned now. LOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLL. agents certainly do not have scruples.
Bacca is the next one to be thrown into the fray.
yawwwwwnnnnnnnn
I am already tired today.
Here the weather is superb since it is at an acceptable 30 degrees with a slight breeze.
Morning Rico.
If the dippers have paid Milner the 165kpw he wanted then its no wonder they are desperate.
I would have loved Milner at AFC however I do not think he should earn more than SAnches, Ozil and Aaron.
Milner is a decent, solid professional.
He would have done a good job for us.
But his type of player are 10 a penny.
The fact that he is English, was the biggest plus to signing him.
Of course money is important and this next move is the last chance he’ll have of making a killing.
He’s also a Northern lad and had spent all his career in the North…
London was probably too big a move for him, the poor soul….
Morning Devil..
I guess Milner knew he wouldn’t be first choice for us, either that or Wenger really didn’t want him despite all the stories. Let’s hope our manager is aiming higher.
Pogba is joining Barca after the UCL final…
aranguiz for us
If we wanted Milner and he went to Liverpool not much ambition on he’s behalf.
Barca can’t sign players until January tsgh.
Or can’t register them who knows with FIFA sanctions.
New post up now..
So UEFA has said but I don’t believe so Joe…
Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) even