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Wenger staying and will be spending & Is there more to losing players each year than we all know?

So Arsene Wenger is going nowhere, despite all that has been going wrong and according to Ivan Gazidis, he will have money to waste spend again in January. Apparently Stan Kroenke, who understands everything about the current game and it’s on-field tactics, believes our manager is the right one to take our club back to the top.

Arsene Wenger believes that the only reason we haven’t been as successful as we could have been is all down to selling losing players each year.

Really Arsene?

Talking to Four Four Two magazine he said:

My regret is that we already had a great team two or three years ago which could compete on four fronts. We just missed out in the Champions League [last 16 tie] against Barcelona, when we could have scored in the last minute, and then we just missed out on the Premier League too.

But you could feel the potential was there, and I thought, ‘OK, let’s do this together’. Then the team split up. Sometimes after five or six years’ work, it is frustrating, you have to start all over again.

We have lost recent players earlier in their careers – to lose Van Persie, Fabregas, Nasri and Song in just two years, it is a massive amount of potential, of course you worry.

Takes us nicely onto today’s post:

The first high profile Arsenal player I remember leaving us was Frank Stapleton in 1981. I’d been an Arsenal supporter for just under 2 years at that time and I clearly remember being gutted when he left for Man Ure. I was only 8 at the time but I’d already grown to love him as a player in the red and white.  Maybe I was too young and innocent to notice but I don’t recall there being more than general disappointment that he’d left us.

Over the ensuing years many players that we’ve loved have come and gone and some have even managed to stay firmly ensconced in our hearts, forever cherished for what they’ve achieved in our colours. However, some have had quite the opposite experience.

Of more recent times the first player whose departure I recall causing more than a bit of a stir is Mathieu Flamini. Many Gooners were incensed that he didn’t sign the contract offered to him, (albeit not long before his other contract expired), and he was vilified by many for not doing so. Since then many more have left for pastures new and, it has to be said, far higher wages.

Some of them I simply didn’t give a damn about, in fact I was quite glad to see the back of them but others made me feel betrayed. They’d let me and the rest of the Gooner Nation down.

Adebarndoor, Nasri, Cesc, Cashley & Robin, they’ve all gone and I’ve despised each of them for their callous mercenary behaviour. Theo and Sagna look decidedly like they’re next.

I guess I should hate them too. Or should I?

Are they all just money grabbing little upstarts or is there something else happening behind closed doors at our club, I mean business, I mean club that we just aren’t privy to? I mean, is it really coincidence that year on year we lose at least two of our top players?

I’m really beginning to smell a rat.

I genuinely believe that Theo would like to stay. So what’s stopping him?

There are many rumours around Arsenal’s contract negotiations with Theo, like he’s holding out for £100k pw and that he wants assurances that he’ll play up front. The latest is that Arsenal are trying to impose a clause cutting wages in the event of not qualifying for the champions league.

I don’t know if this is true but if it is I’m not sure it sends the right message to the likes of our current top scorer. It also makes me wonder how long this sort of thing has been going on.

Right now it’s something I can readily believe has been rife since Wenger inexplicably dismantled the Invincibles and I feel compelled to ask the question, why do these guys feel the need to leave just when we look like we could start winning pots again?

Something is not right at our club and I’m beginning to wonder if I might have been directing my anger and disappointment at the wrong people. Are the modern day Frank Stapletons really the villains here?

Or are the club leadership really responsible for making these guys feel like they have no choice?

The bottom line for me is that my instincts tell me not to trust a word that comes out of Arsenal FC at the present time and I wonder if we haven’t been just a teeny bit harsh on the guys that got a better offer and took it.

Written by Bendtnersgone

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171 Responses to Wenger staying and will be spending & Is there more to losing players each year than we all know?

  1. Arsenal News says:

    [...] Wenger staying and will be spending & Is there more to losing players each year than we all kno… [...]

  2. TT says:

    Good article that. Hope the dictator leaves soon and takes the mummies from the board, Gazides and the yank with him!

  3. rico says:

    Morning all…

    Good post Bg. Wenger moans about the players going each year, well surely the fault is with the board/manager?

    They are the ones responsible for us not being better on the pitch, for sure players who want to win trophies elsewhere will look to leave to achieve that.

    But, there will also always be players who just want to line their own pockets…

  4. Mattyboy says:

    Well if it aint Wengo then you gotta wonder whos giving these players the nod to go? song for instance had 3 years left on his contract… RVP and walcott contracts have been left to expire… its a shambles!

  5. Lewis says:

    Morning all.

    Great post BG! I smell a rat too, we are only ever in the black if we sell our best players every year. It simply has to stop, the board harp on about our financial model being the best way to go, it’s the best way to go if you do not want any on field success but want to line the pockets of the already über rich.

    Sack the board.

  6. Lewis says:

    We were so close to winning things a few years back, I think that’s what grates me most. If we had just shown a little more ambition and signed 2/3 top players we would have held on to a few of our better players and probably challenged for honours. We weren’t asking for the club to go bust in the process, just a bit of positive investment.

  7. tsGH says:

    Morning all…

    A very fine post BG. I agree with the post completely.

    I came to the conclusion that footballers are worse than bankers and some lawyers a few years ago so I was not going to stress myself after bad performances anymore.

    Players use ambition as an excuse but when did the manure Wooney stated as lacking in ambition become ambitions? well, a £250k p/w salary changed that I guess. And then there is the chavs favourite Terry who was prepared to go to $hitty until his salary was increased too to roughly £240k p/w, but most fickle fans living on their £10 p/h wages adore these morons. Not me…

  8. Bradster says:

    Nice write up Bentnersgone.
    I will still hate Adabayour, Gallas and Nasri for the way they acted and treated Arsenal after they left. The rest still respect the club.
    Must be worrying when even Viera refuses to join us and talks poorly of the club.

  9. rico says:

    Matty, Ts has mentioned many times about Wenger having to amke ‘£20M’ each year for the board. Maybe selling the players is the easiest way to do that.

    However, my own view is that the ‘making of £20m’ comment from the board is rubbish as the club makes that and much much more from all the others ways they sting the fans…

  10. tsGH says:

    Bradster Vieira insulted us in 2001 when he wanted a pay increment to 80k p/w on par with Keane. At that time he said AW and Dein told him they had £25M to spend that summer. AW told him he could get 3 good players with that but Vieira said RM and AC spend more on one player so that was showing lack of ambition…. Thus that sound familiar?

  11. ozgunner10 says:

    there is once again direct contradiction in the Arsenal ranks – We knew there was 40m plus prior to this season in the accounts and now know is has swelled to 70m plus, although many Wenger fans globally will argue (as he constantly does) he has no money – Gaz has directly contradicted this AGAIN. Points were made about the closed nature of the board and the fact new blood was needed, no argument from me on that one either. Several questions were raised about limiting Wengers control and forcing him to focus on his job Club Manager instead of his be all and end all mentality. They put it nicer than that though So again the facts prevail as to who stands as the most responsible for where we’re at, like we didn’t know it anyway, They are as thick as thieves all of them but under pressure do tend to point the finger haha

  12. TT says:

    Bradster I don’t ever remember Paddy talking badly about the club itself, more like hinting that he did not like how certain things were done there.

  13. ozgunner10 says:

    we understand, this money is for team improvement and is in no way linked to loans – it was also the wish of the financiers, the team had funds to move forward – are we moving forward?

  14. stevepalmer1 says:

    Morning all.
    Very good post, made me think of midsummer murders who is guilty well done Bentnersgone.
    You make it sound as though there is a bit of sculdugery afoot, and you could be on the right track. I don’t suppose we will ever get to the bottom of it but it has to be said that it looks as if trophies are not heading our way yet. Winning competitions do not look high on the Arsenal boards agenda.Kroenke also doesn’t seem to bothered either. Wenger is the man in the limelight every week he stands in front of camera’s every game and he has to answer all the questions, when talking just lately on Walcotts contract situation he says that they talk in training sessions but not about his contract he has also said that a team with ambition do not sell their best players, he has said that he wants us to be competitive with the best clubs but still we allow our players to leave and join them. We replace players with cheaper options and with players who usually come from different leagues the one thing that is a common denominator is money how to make the biggest profit. When thattype of system is in play it usually means that you sell your best assets for profit, but the chink in that armour is that selling best and buying second best means that you end up with deadwood that you cannot sell. Also what we have to look at is what is our assets at the moment Wilshere, Chamberlain Walcott so i would say dont get to attatched to them.

  15. rico says:

    Here here Lewis..

    Brad – me too re those you list, and a few others…

    Add Bendtner and Denilson, they haven’t even left yet but have had a few things to say….

  16. tsGH says:

    With all due respect most of you are burying your heads in a sand. History tells us AFC has never bought big and has always been a selling club. Wasn’t Brady sold in 1980 the same way all these players are being sold by the board left and right? And AW was not there then so its not his philosophy is it? Even Robson was sold to WHU when they came calling… That is Arsenal anfd the traditions. The board has always chosen money over success…
    Report from the summer of 2001 when we still had DD.

    David Dein, the Arsenal vice-chairman, is about to renew acquaintance with a lady who appears in some of his worst football nightmares.

    She is French lawyer Marguerite Fauconet and one of her clients is Patrick Vieira. Another, as Dein knows only too well, is Nicolas Anelka. Ms Fauconet was Anelka’s legal representative throughout the protracted, often acrimonious wrangle that preceded his departure from Highbury. And with Dein and Arsenal determined to hold the unhappy Vieira to his contract, another bitter stand-off looks certain.

    The next major round in the Vieira saga, so far played out largely in the columns of rival tabloids, will come on Thursday when the player is due to report back for training. If Vieira fails to turn up – and he has already claimed to be ‘finished’ with Arsenal – Ms Fauconet will be preparing for action. She is prepared to line up once more alongside Vieira’s controversial agent, Marc Roger, for what could be an even more troublesome sequel.

    Roger, also an adviser to Anelka, has been portrayed as the villain in the tug-of-war for Vieira so far. He has been vilified as an unlicensed money-grabber by The Mirror, hawking the player to Juventus, Barcelona and Manchester United without Arsenal’s permission. But he has been defended in The Sun who have enjoyed exclusive ‘interviews’ with Vieira, who told them he wants to leave.

    Ms Fauconet, as befits her profession, is so discreet that her presence at the heart of several multimillion-pound football transfers has never before attracted attention.

    ‘Yes, I do work for Patrick,’ she said from her office in Paris, while declining to elaborate on individual cases. ‘Anelka is another client and I still remember that very nice summer I spent talking to Arsenal about him.’ Her charming irony, as she contemplates another dogfight over the future of Vieira, might be lost on Dein.

    Fauconet is so well versed in the rights of footballers that she played an important part in France’s input to the new Fifa contract regulations, which coincidentally come into force today.

    Not that she is too impressed by their final form. ‘For a start,’ she said, ‘they will apply only to new contracts. They will not apply to Patrick, for example, in his situation at Arsenal. I think it is totally unacceptable that we should have a two-speed system. Players should have the right to the same treatment. Fifa are still trying to have rules that are against the law of individual European countries. Happily, the law states that anyone who feels good reason to cancel a contract is able to do so – on the understanding, of course, that he pays damages only if he is found to be at fault.’

    That may well be a menacing leitmotif throughout the battle that will intensify when Vieira returns from holiday this week. He has been away for a fortnight, apparently in Florida, with his girlfriend and his agent – incommunicado, except for The Sun. A leading source at the Wapping tabloid’s sports desk scoffed at rumours that an £80,000 cheque opened the door to the player.

    ‘The story initially came to us via a third party very close to Vieira and Roger,’ said a Sun insider. ‘We spoke to him and then put what he had told us to Vieira. Next day, Roger confirmed it all. We may have bunged that source a few quid – but I don’t think we paid Vieira or Roger anything.’ Others think differently.

    Many observers, including Arsenal team-mates, have questioned whether Vieira would have uttered the damning barbs attributed to him. So, did Vieira actually talk to The Sun ? Or were the various quotes simply fed from Roger, or the third-party source? ‘I couldn’t really say anything about that,’ said our Sun man – the inference clearly being that, at best, Vieira has approved the quotes but not spoken them.

    Dein and the Arsenal manager, Arsène Wenger, are furious and determined to dig in. Both are adamant that Vieira must stay. ‘This will test whether Arsenal are really strong,’ said a senior club source, ‘Otherwise next year it will be Thierry Henry, the year after Robert Pires, the year after that Ashley Cole. Where does it end?’

    Some suspect it ends in the trouser pockets of Roger, who could snaffle £3.5million as his cut for a £24m transfer. It has been reported that no pictures of Roger are in circulation, and an exhaustive search by The Observer has produced none, but one French journalist painted a vivid picture. ‘He’s white, overweight, middle-aged, looks like a porn film producer. He has white hair, wears heavy jewellery and a gold Rolex. I wouldn’t buy a second-hand tomato-peeler from this man.’

    The battle for the player is matched by the battle for the story. The tabloid war began in mid-June when The Mirror decided to question the man who must surely know the truth: Wenger. And so it was that on 14 June The Mirror back page thundered: ‘Wenger: Vieira stays’. Wenger declared: ‘Patrick’s happy here and will be a Gunner next year.’

    But when the Mirror ‘s chief football writer, Harry Harris, got wind of the Wenger tale – written by a relative newcomer to the sports desk – he counselled caution, saying he had a story on the machinations of Roger, and how the player was being touted to Europe’s leading clubs. The Mirror decided against Harris’s story and went with the Wenger version.

    Either Wenger was seriously under-informed about his own player or he was using The Mirror as a last-ditch ploy to keep Vieira onside, because the balloon then went up – and it was The Sun who filled it with more than just hot air.

    Their story the following week was headlined: ‘Vieira: I’m off’. The player had asked for a transfer and said: ‘I’ve left, that’s it and they know it’. The accompanying two-page exclusive claimed Vieira had been contacted by ‘every major club’ during the summer – but who was doing the contacting?

    Roger, of course. Harris’s unused story had been floating in cyberspace on his website before it was finally presented to readers last Saturday, 23 June to prick The Sun’s balloon. ‘Exposed: the murky world of the agent who is turning Vieira farce into Anelka Mark II’. Harris claimed Roger was not a Fifa registered agent and that he had pocketed a ‘handsome’ payout for his work on Anelka’s move from Arsenal to Real Madrid. The paper ‘uncovered’ a number of attempts to lure the player to United, Barcelona or Juventus.

    There had been another reason for Harris’s sports editor to change tack. If The Sun’s exclusive wasn’t enough, Dein had telephoned Piers Morgan, editor of The Mirror, to politely but pointedly inquire why Harris’s exposé of Roger had not been run in the paper.

    And then it got nasty. The Sun on 25 June announced ‘Vieira blows his top’ and produced an uncharacteristic tirade from the player in which he attacked Arsenal team-mates Pires, Henry and Sylvain Wiltord and claimed the Gunners would not finish in the top five. How would The Mirror counter it?

    They did so with another Harris effort, saying Vieira faced a Fifa probe over his agent’s dealings. Trouble is, there is no probe because Arsenal have yet to lodge a complaint. They are, however, considering doing so.

    The Mirror’s assertion that Roger was hawking his client around Europe gathered pace last Wednesday when, according to insiders, Dein and the Manchester United chief executive, Peter Kenyon, spoke on the telephone. Dein was furious with the orchestrated attempts to put Vieira at United’s disposal and he apparently told Kenyon that Arsenal were not selling; further, they were considering alerting Fifa about Roger’s actions. By coincidence, an Italian court was clearing Lazio’s midfielder Juan Veron from involvement in a passports scam and Veron escaped suspension. United rapidly switched attention from Vieira to Veron.

    GORDON TAYLOR, THE players’ union chief executive and head of Fifpro, the European players’ federation, looked on bemused. ‘The big clubs are just doing what they want. No one takes any action. It’s a free-for-all but I’ve always said that there would never be a case of a player breaking a contract if clubs weren’t enticing them to do so. I’ve never known a player break a contract to go nowhere.’

    It all leaves Arsenal and Wenger, in particular, exasperated. The likelihood is that Vieira will not turn up on Thursday and Arsenal will fine or suspend him until he returns_ or until they go to court. Our Arsenal source admitted: ‘We hope it doesn’t come to that but this could be a test case. We have the strength to take it on – otherwise the game is up. We have the legal and moral high ground.’

    Perhaps they do. But whether they will continue to have Vieira or even Wenger is doubtful. The manager, who last season took a lead by saying he would quit football rather than cave in to player-power demands for total freedom of contract, is said to be on the brink. This season could well be his last hurrah for Arsenal – especially if he spends it without Patrick Vieira.

  17. rico says:

    Ts – surely we can’t complain about players wanting a top salary IF they are of the right standard to be awarded one.

    If our club wont pay it then why should they not look elsewhere, we all do in ‘normal’ working life often.

    And if you were say Walcott and watched Squilli et get paid £50K a week, you’d expect to be paid at least double…

  18. Lawrence says:

    Excellent article. Makes you think. I can see from a players point of view. Having read over several months what their side is and there is no smoke without fire.

    I have come to the conclusion that all blame lies with our manager and board. I really have lost all faith in them. I actually can not wait for what ever year it will be for all of them to go.
    If they truly wanted to keep a player then it really is possible.

    I have no time for the board what so ever. I even read Ivan the terrible saying that all gooners where onboard with project profits.
    Well he did not ask me, I would have given him my size ten foot up his arse.

  19. tsGH says:

    Funds available? coming from a man who 3 months ago said 10 years ago spending £10M pounds on a player was very big money…

    I guess he was asleep when Rio, Wooney, Veron, Rivaldo, Zidane, Buffon and Ronaldiho etc were being sold at record high prices.

    Yes there is money but if you are given Euros 20M each summer to spend as well as the first years salary of the purchases then, even RedNose will struggle to be a genius… ;)

    Some may ask where I get this infor from? PV, Cesc and even Nasri all have said that Arsene has told then he had £15M to spend in 2011. Just people choose to ignore it.

    Lets get AW out and then we can all have abetter manager then…

    How many teams are spending 60M pounds on a single player now as in VP case. Even RM only spend a net of £20M last summer. Times are changing, its hard time football fans realise this…

  20. rico says:

    Bit harsh about burying heads in the sand Ts…

    Think we all know we sell players each year, what we are trying to understand is why, because we don’t need to and shouldn’t be doing so…

  21. rico says:

    Lawrence – he didn’t ask me either…

    Ts, so who does tell you ? ;)

  22. tsGH says:

    If I was TW and I had the touch of a rapist until last season I would be grateful I was not managed by Rednose who would have sold him to Burnley or Wycombe years ago.

    And how many caps and trophies has Le Squid won and how many has TW won in his career? How many chances has TW missed with us?

  23. Scott from Oz says:

    Morning all.
    Just back from taking the lady out for her birthday dinner…..40 y.o today,and she is still as gorgeous as she was at 20…..maybe better.
    Anyways,what have we got to look forward to guys?
    Don’t all rush me :)
    By the way,this new Aussie bloke is making too much sense.
    Cut it Al…i don’t need your help to look foolish mate lol!!
    Has any,thing come of the rumours of a big announcement,or has it blown over?

  24. tsGH says:

    By MARK IRWIN

    PATRICK VIEIRA has launched a blistering attack on Arsenal, making it impossible for him to stay at Highbury.

    The Frenchman has broken his silence by lashing boss Arsene Wenger, vice-chairman David Dein — and even his team-mates.

    But Vieira insisted last night: “People should know this is nothing to do with money. I need to leave because I want to win more trophies and I just cannot see that happening at Arsenal. Certainly not over the next few years, anyway.

    “Comparing Arsenal to the big clubs in Europe this season is going to be quite ridiculous.”

    Dein and his fellow directors remain adamant their £25million-rated midfielder is not for sale at any price — and that he must respect the remaining three years of his contract.

    But Vieira, 25, has deliberately burned all his bridges and insists there will be no turning back in his drive to move on to bigger and better things.

    Speaking from his holiday hideaway in Miami, the World Cup and Euro 2000 star stormed: “As far as I’m concerned, the matter is resolved. I am leaving Arsenal and I have made that perfectly clear.

    “When I told Arsene Wenger I was leaving, he said to me ‘I have £25m to spend on a few players’.

    “My answer was ‘Obviously, Mr Wenger, you are not shopping in Harrods. That will only buy you one good player’. Now I have been proved right.”

    Arsenal have already splashed £18.5m on landing Everton striker Francis Jeffers and Rangers midfielder Giovanni van Bronckhorst.

    They are still in the hunt for Sol Campbell and plan further deals to capture Ipswich goalkeeper Richard Wright and Japanese midfielder Junichi Inamoto from J-League club Gamba Osaka.

    Vieira, though, remains distinctly unimpressed.

    He added: “Arsene Wenger has signed two ‘hopeful’ players who haven’t proved themselves in the Premiership yet. One of them is a boy of 20.

    “You can’t compete with the best clubs in Europe by making these kind of signings.”

    Vieira believes the rot started to set in last summer — when the Gunners agreed to sell Marc Overmars and Emmanuel Petit to Barcelona in a joint £30m deal.

    He added: “It’s a miracle that we finished second in the league last season.

    “I have said it before and I will say it again now — you don’t sell your best players.

    “That was why it was a miracle that we got through to the quarter-finals of the Champions League.

    “This season Leeds, Chelsea and Liverpool will be signing new players and will be automatically stronger and better than last season.

    “I do not honestly see Arsenal finishing in the top five in the league — and you can forget the Champions League.

    “Arsene Wenger is an ambitious manager and he knows deep in his heart that he needs five world-class players to compete among the best in Europe.

    “With £25m in the kitty, Arsenal is not a great European club. With that budget they won’t even be among the top 20 clubs in Europe.

    “The people at Arsenal know in the backs of their minds that they have a new stadium to build and that will hold them back when it comes to making big new signings.”

    Vieira, in Florida with girlfriend Sheryl and agent Marc Roger, is just as angry at the comments of Arsenal team-mates who have pleaded with him not to quit Highbury.

    He rapped: “I cannot understand why players like Robert Pires, Thierry Henry, Sylvain Wiltord and Gilles Grimandi are saying I should stay. I have given 100 per cent to Arsenal over the last five years. They have only been there for a year or so.

    “They have won nothing with Arsenal. They should stay and try to win things for the club before they open their mouths.

    “My message to these players is that they have their lives and I have mine.

    “Maybe after five years with Arsenal they will be saying the same things that I am saying now.

    “Perhaps they will be talking about movement and a change of environment like me.

    “But first they must prove themselves before they are entitled to a move. They haven’t produced anything for Arsenal yet.

    “I will join a club that has the same ambitions as me — a club that is going to win everything.

    “That is why I ask Pires and Grimandi and the rest of the Arsenal players to be quiet, mind their own business and respect Patrick Vieira’s ambitions and decisions.”

    Vieira is upset at attempts to blame his agent for manufacturing a move in order to pocket £3.5m in commission.

    And he claims the club have a “two-faced” attitude to the transfer market.

    He added: “Arsenal are no different to any other club when it comes to the transfer process. When they don’t want a player, they will make contact with other clubs and try to sell him.

    “This summer they are going to do exactly that. I know they are trying to sell one of the best players in the world.

    “So I find it strange when David Dein says I am not for sale and should not be contacted by anyone.

    “There have been crazy reports about my agent in some newspapers that I want to correct.

    “It is ridiculous to criticise Marc. He has been my best friend since I was a boy of 19 at Cannes.

    “He had great players then and we became close friends. I am the godfather to his little daughter. So Marc and I have a special relationship which started before football came into it.

    “Now some people have tried to discredit him. He is the managing director of the FIFA-registered agency Fidustar and he works with one of the most respectable solicitors in the football world.

    “Marc has handled more than 150 transfers, 15 of them in England.

    “One newspaper said Marc will get £3.5m as commission from my transfer. That is not true.

    “That will be my signing-on fee, not the commission. Marc will get only 10 per cent of my salary.

    “That’s how strong our friendship is. Money does not come into it.

    “He renewed and improved my contract twice with Arsenal in the last five years.

    “But I told Marc ‘not this time, I want to leave’.

    “That is the reality of the situation. And I want people to know the truth.

    “I will always remember my time at Arsenal — but I am going.”

  25. rico says:

    http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/how-karren-brady-made-82-million-171935599.html

    Get Usmanov in with Brady to replace Ivan… And she’s a Gooner isn’t she?
    :)

  26. Pete The First says:

    Wasn’t Stapleton chased down Avenell Road when he came back to Highbury with United?

  27. Scott from Oz says:

    Something just struck me,after reading Ginges post.
    Go through our players that have been sold over the last few years or are possibly heading soon…..they nearly all have something in common.
    Fabregas……a history of injuries in his last few seasons.
    Song…..was just awful for a few seasons.
    RVP…..spent more time travelling to hospital then he did the ground for 7 of 8 seasons.
    Nasri…..looked only ok for us except a burst of brilliance which only lasted 3 months.
    Theo…..hot and cold for years and really is only just starting to show signs of a little consistency.
    Sagna…..2 major injuries in recent seasons.
    No doubt i have missed some,but each of these has had the full support of the club and manager in times of need when,in some cases,most would have wiped their hands of them.

  28. jay says:

    We have an owner who cant even be bothered to fill his padded seat at home games,employing connman Gazidis to front a club that is in decline.Wenger is on 7.5 mil a year to suck up to these people who we had never heard of 5 years ago.the writing was on the wall when Dein left Arsenal.He was a true Gooner.Supporting and then rising to become a board member ,I fear for the club I have supported for more than 50 years.Unless there is a change at the very top we will fall even further by the wayside .

  29. ozgunner10 says:

    the financials argue clearly with those players ts and come on, is Wenger really likely to sit down with players and confide that information? One thing the board has always said and are still saying is ‘they have never denied Wenger anyone he wanted’ – Maybe he is wanting the wrong players, maybe he gets them and then looses them in the motivation stakes but something is clearly wrong with this team on the park. Off the park, what has happened now is we’re a selling club no questions and who has the final word on transfers from his own mouth many times? “I make the decisions” has been the standard reply, now things are being questioned big time, we get ‘oh i have to speak to my finance guy”?

  30. tsGH says:

    The state of our club can be summed up by the alleged gaffe of Fox recently. How can a supposedly head of communication for an institution such as Arsenal claim that he did not expect his comments made to journos to be published?

    Why was it that it was AW who was shopping around VP to PSG so that the player did not play against us when we are paying people like D. Law?

    Why is it that AW had to drive up the price of VP according to fergie when IG or the financial director are paid to do that job?

    Those are the questions Payton and AST should be asking IG..

  31. rico says:

    But one is on the way up, the other is on his way down. Why reward an old has been?

    Scott, one from Oz had to make sense ;)

  32. ozgunner10 says:

    ts – i think the AST did touch on exactly that issue of Wenger wearing to many hats didn’t they?

  33. Scott from Oz says:

    Suppose a 50% strike rate isn’t too bad,hey Rico?

  34. ozgunner10 says:

    agree with you jay

  35. Scott from Oz says:

    Al,he does have too much responsibility,no doubt.
    Too much to do,and the board seem happy to leave it to him,because,imo,they then have their scapegoat,even though he is doing exactly what they want.

  36. Scott from Oz says:

    Stan is not a true owner…..he is an investor with absolutely no interest in the club except as a money making tool.

  37. potter says:

    Interesting read on the Vieira history , but to me all it did was highlight just how disengenuous the murky financial world of football has become since players agents got their grubby little hands in the collective till and how the major clubs influence them.
    The new stadium has impacted on Wenger’s spending capacity and despite the boards protestations that it wouldn’t it has. Rumours abound about the sum available to him but they always have. Even the £ 50 million quoted is too little too late it will merely buy either 1 player of “”super quality “” with the wages or a selection of lesser prospects like Zaha ( for whom we will probably lose Walcott ) that are not likely to be any better than the players we got on our last splurge. This team is going to take a long hard look at and will need to be centred around 6 or 7 of the current squad , who need to be paid enough to stay and be sold the future and this needs regular supplementation until we get a squad of 18 top players. It’s going to be a long haul from here. We should have done this 4 years ago.

  38. tsGH says:

    oz in PV case DD told him how much they had to spend. I bet it was the same with VP in May when he had a meeting with IG and AW before the euros.

    I bet the players asked how much he had to spend and why he was not going after player A or B. Do you expect AW to say I have I have £40M in the bank but I am scared to spend so I will buy a player from Congo or China instead just bear with me!

    Cesc came to uswhen no one wanted him but at the end he claimed we lacked ambition.

    PV was in the reserves in Italy but had the nerve to say we lacked ambition… please..

    I do not or will never accept that any man deserves to be paid £100k p/w when people are starving and dying a few miles away from their mansions.

  39. rico says:

    Scott – what that tells me is Wenger waits until they are either fit or good enough to sell and then makes a profit…

  40. Scott from Oz says:

    Well said Ginge.
    We had a copper die on the job the other day…..he earned less in a year than some footballers do in 3 bloody days!?

  41. Scott from Oz says:

    Rico,they are the ones suggesting the club lacks ambition though….another case of not really knowing the truth.

  42. ozgunner10 says:

    Scot, i believe the three of them are firmly in the same bed and i agree with you 100% on Stan. His project is about money and Wenger and Gaz make sure he gets it for which they are paid almost silly money, especially poverty stricken Wenger

  43. tsGH says:

    Didn’t PHW tell us that Stan was an Arsenal supporter so the fans should support him? Even lady Nina said so…

    I totally agree Potter. I am not defending AW but I do know for fact that there is no football person on the board even though IG ran the MLS previously. So if AW is gone who will make footballing decisions. Pep or Mourinho please! And Klopp outspend AW last summer but is 14 points behind Bayern.

  44. ozgunner10 says:

    the same PHW who and i quote “we don’t want his kind around our club” ?

  45. ozgunner10 says:

    ts – last point fair enough mate

  46. tsGH says:

    Rico if you choose to believe that then well fair enough… ;)

    And I am sure most of you have read AU letter several times but for the last time. Please pay particular attention topara 10 onwards…

    RED AND WHITE SECURITIES LIMITED
    To: The Board of Directors of Arsenal Holdings Plc: Peter Hill-Wood, Ivan Gazidis, Ken Friar, Sir Chips Keswick, Lord Harris of Peckham, Stanley Kroenke
    With copy to: David Miles, Mark Gonnella
    5th July 2012
    Re: Open Letter to the Board of Directors of Arsenal Holdings Plc (the “Club”)
    Dear Sirs,
    In recent weeks a couple of separate actions have occurred, which have caused us, as a near 30% shareholder in the Club, to have serious concerns about the approach of the Board and the management team:
    • Firstly, there were some very deliberate and public comments by Ivan Gazidis which were intended to leave the Club’s supporters with an impression that Red & White is in some bitter stand-off with the Board over its desire for a Board seat and that our involvement on the Club’s Board might cause conflict and “destabilize” the Club; and
    • Secondly, OJSC MegaFon (Russia) received a cold call letter from Mr Gazidis requesting a meeting to discuss a possible international partnership deal including shirt sponsorship. MegaFon is one of the three largest mobile phone companies in Russia and also happens to be over 50% owned by Alisher Usmanov. Is this really the level of professionalism that is being applied to securing long-term commercial contracts?
    Let us not forget that we have invested circa £200 million of cash in the equity of the Club. We are part of this Club and naturally want the best for it, but our investment is less important than the fact that we are loyal supporters and will never do anything that would destabilize or “create conflict” at the Club.
    We do however believe that you, the Board, and the executive management team should focus your energies on the most efficient operation of the Club and desist from seeking to create a false enemy in Red & White. In our view it is clear that you are trying to distract attention from the more fundamental issues facing the Club, and which indeed many of the supporters discuss through social media sites and other forums on a regular basis. These are the financial model, the lack of investment and the Club’s future strategic direction.
    However, before addressing these points, it is important to deal with the issues surrounding a Board seat for Red & White once and for all. As you all know well, Mr Usmanov has never sought for himself a Board seat at the Club. Indeed Mr Usmanov does not hold any board seat in any of the companies where he is an investor. Since the purchase of our first share in the Club, we have not only steadfastly adhered to a policy of non-interference in the running of the Club, but have consistently supported the management and given no reason whatsoever to be accused of subversion or sabotage. The history of our voting in support of the Board at the annual general meetings is proof of this.
    Indeed, in any conversation about conflict, it is clear from a look at the history of the Club in recent years that the Board has achieved conflict without the help of any outside parties, notably the acrimonious departures of David Dein, Keith Edelman, Lady Nina Bracewell-Smith and Richard Carr, who then reappeared on the Football Club Board. You also instituted a lock-down agreement originally to prevent Mr Kroenke from gaining control and then, later, to exclude our involvement even though there were no grounds or need to do so.
    The real conflict seems to be between the supporters’ expectations and your vision for the Club and at the heart of this is the policy of so-called self-financing. The self-financing model was created to suit the major shareholders at the time, all of whom subsequently sold their shares.
    The previous decision by the Board to fund the building of the Emirates Stadium with long-term debt was, we believe, certainly not about self-financing. If it had been, it would have been funded through a mixture of debt and non-dividend equity. Instead it allowed, in our view, the major shareholders of the time, who happened to all be Board directors, to load the Club with a liability, to benefit from increased future revenue streams and consequent increase in the value of their holdings, whilst avoiding dilution of their equity. The Board of the time then appeared to pursue a policy of increasing ticket prices and squeezing the fans to cover the short term cost increases which allowed them to bridge until all of these shareholders and Board directors sold 100% of their holdings and cashed out at vast profits.
    This policy does not seem to have changed. We have sought and been refused any meetings with Mr Kroenke despite the fact that we own almost 30% of the Club or to put another way almost 1 in every 3 seats in the stadium. It is clear that our stated policy for the major shareholders, namely Mr Kroenke and ourselves, to inject non-dividend paying equity into the Club by way of a rights issue to reduce the debt and invest in the future is of no interest to the Board. Mr Kroenke was sold a vision by the Board at the time that the Club could be successful without further investment, so he is pursuing a similar policy which is to run the Club without any investment and to avoid any dilution of his equity, a good part of which was funded by a loan from Deutsche Bank AG to KSE, UK, Inc. at the time of the mandatory offer. The status of that loan and whether it is still outstanding has not been clarified by Mr Kroenke.
    As a consequence of this policy, which is dressed up as prudent financial planning, it is down to our manager, and not the shareholders, to have to deal with the Club’s tight finances, carry the burden of repaying the stadium debt by selling his best players and having to continue to find cheaper replacements. All of that, naturally, comes at the expense of performance on the pitch.
    This policy is leading to the loss of our best players, often to our main competitors, and even causes the players themselves to question their future at the Club and the Club’s ambitions. The situation with our captain and outstanding performer from last season Robin van Persie sums this up. Yet again we are faced with losing our true marquee player at the Club because we cannot assure him of the future direction and give confidence that we can win trophies. Where are the safeguards to ensure that this doesn’t happen again and again in the future? As a top Club we should, at the very least, match if not beat the offers that other clubs make to try and lure our very best players away, and also provide a more compelling vision of the future. You can try and put a good face on a bad game for as long as you want, pontificating about the merits of this model, but it will not hide the obvious fact that it just does not allow our great manager to fully realize his managerial talent and deliver success for the fans who are paying the highest prices in the land. It appears that a place in the Champions League will be the pinnacle of our ambition again next season. Unfortunately, in the future we may see this ambition lowered further. It doesn’t help to turn a blind eye to the reality of the situation and keep thinking of ourselves as being in the same league as Real Madrid, Chelsea, Manchester City and Barcelona. To have a fighting chance of success, which means winning trophies, we need to match them in every aspect, including, if not first and foremost, financial.
    So what is Red & White’s vision for the Club? It is simple. A debt free Club, with a big enough war chest to buy top talent players who can hit the ground running and who can complement the Club’s long tradition of developing young players and homegrown talent. Together they can help the Club win the most prestigious trophies – because it is the trophies which are the crowning achievement for everybody at the Club. The trophies are also key to the commercial success of the Club – they increase the value of the players, the value of the brand, attract the best sponsors and maximize the value of our commercial contracts which should in turn mean that the Club does not have to squeeze any more income from hard pressed fans. We also believe in the transparency that a stock market listing brings so are committed to the Club remaining listed on the stock exchange and to greater fan involvement both through share ownership and also Board representation for the fans.
    Today we wish the majority shareholder Mr Kroenke every success in running the Club, even though we have deep reservations about the viability of the policies being pursued by his management team and sanctioned by the Board.
    Finally and reflecting our long-term commitment to the Club, we will continue to purchase more shares in the Club from anyone who wants to sell them to us. Also in order to formalize our long-term involvement with the Club and put an end to any speculation over our position, we, as the co-owners of Red &White, will proudly retain our holding in the Club as a long-term investment for ourselves and our family members to benefit for generations to come. We want the absolute best for the Club and will do what is necessary to ensure the success of the Club that we all love.
    Yours sincerely,
    Alisher Usmanov
    Farhad Moshiri

  47. Scott from Oz says:

    Can’t wait to read Wengers book on all this.

  48. rico says:

    Exactly Scott, none of us really know. If only we did eh, might all make sense then…

    But, AW can’t escape from what goes on on the pitch, our squad isn’t as bad as the results are suggesting, nowhere near but something is wrong with either training, tactics or players belief in what they are being asked to do or where to play….

    I actually ‘choose’ to believe that some of what Robson has said isn’t too far from being the truth….

  49. tsGH says:

    “When I told Arsene Wenger I was leaving, he said to me ‘I have £25m to spend on a few players’.

    “My answer was ‘Obviously, Mr Wenger, you are not shopping in Harrods. That will only buy you one good player’. Now I have been proved right.” ha ha ha.

    And those always slating AW’s purchases lets have a look at Fergies buys in 2001 again. How many of those players contributed? Will Fergie take any blame for manures financial state or will be take the credit for their £350M annual revenue?

    01/02 Diego Forlán FW Independiente
    01/02 Bojan Djordjic MF Sheffield Wednesday
    01/02 Danny Webber FW Port Vale FC
    07/01 Laurent Blanc DF Inter
    07/01 Roy Carroll GK Wigan Athletic
    07/01 Jimmy Davis MF Royal Antwerp FC
    07/01 John O’Shea DF Royal Antwerp FC
    07/01 Lee Roche DF Wrexham AFC
    07/01 Ruud van Nistelrooy FW PSV Eindhoven
    07/01 Juan Sebastián Verón MF Lazio Roma

  50. tsGH says:

    Oz you say AST touched on those questions with IG, what answer did he give? IG went to Carnegie training he is an upgrade or footballing world’s version of Alistar Campbell. A spin master who will make Nero and Comical Ali look like Mother Theresa!

  51. Scott from Oz says:

    One thing always strikes me.
    We never buy top class players.
    We always sell top class players.
    If we never buy them,where do we get them?
    Since Wenger has “lost his mojo” in finding bargains,then things do not add up.

  52. tsGH says:

    According to most fans coming Messiah or Mahdi – AU…

    ”As a consequence of this policy, which is dressed up as prudent financial planning, it is down to our manager, and not the shareholders, to have to deal with the Club’s tight finances, carry the burden of repaying the stadium debt by selling his best players and having to continue to find cheaper replacements. All of that, naturally, comes at the expense of performance on the pitch.”

    £7.5M a year I believe it is less than that but how much do people expect a manager who has been at the club for 16 years to be earning but expect to pay TW £100 p/w. Is £7.5M not roughly £140k p/w?

  53. Scott from Oz says:

    Spot on again Ginge.
    One runs a massive club,lives for it,while the other shows up for training and games.
    I am amazed people complain about his salary.
    Whether they think he does a good job or not is another issue,nut that salary is very reasonable in comparison to players wages.

  54. rico says:

    Which one is para 10? ;)

  55. tsGH says:

    Scott that is why I say most fans are burying their heads in the sand. re 11:32 am. And Tony Adams was never considered one of the top 20 best defenders in his carreer but goes on like he is some kind of Ronald Koeman,Daniel Passarella or England own Billy Wright.

    I know a 80 year old Arsenal supporter who thinks Arsenal will always be Arsenal. The only club not to be relegated because we play safe.

    I would rather believe someone like her than Robson who I repeat is a WHU fan. If Arsenal and AW are so clueless why did he take a job with us in the first place. Maybe he is bitter that he was sold to his boyhood club WHU and the following season we won a trophy he never had…

  56. Scott from Oz says:

    Robson is a wanker….i can’t stand him.
    He hates Arsenal,and that shines through every time i see him on ESPN…a few nights a week.
    Never says a decent thing.

  57. tsGH says:

    Scott Aw speaks in subliminal language. If you listen he says it all. Just that most people are used to watching BBC who are a bunch of liars by the way. Maybe I am being hush because not everyone has been trained to understand body language or read people…

    Example when AW says ‘I believe the board will back me when I find the right players for us’. Most fans would rather he said if I find the players in the right price bracket.

  58. tsGH says:

    Rico-

    ….The real conflict seems to be between the supporters’ expectations and your vision for the Club and at the heart of this is the policy of so-called self-financing. The self-financing model was created to suit the major shareholders at the time, all of whom subsequently sold their shares.
    The previous decision by the Board to fund the building of the Emirates Stadium with long-term debt was, we believe, certainly not about self-financing. If it had been, it would have been funded through a mixture of debt and non-dividend equity. Instead it allowed, in our view, the major shareholders of the time, who happened to all be Board directors, to load the Club with a liability, to benefit from increased future revenue streams and consequent increase in the value of their holdings, whilst avoiding dilution of their equity. The Board of the time then appeared to pursue a policy of increasing ticket prices and squeezing the fans to cover the short term cost increases which allowed them to bridge until all of these shareholders and Board directors sold 100% of their holdings and cashed out at vast profits.
    This policy does not seem to have changed. We have sought and been refused any meetings with Mr Kroenke despite the fact that we own almost 30% of the Club or to put another way almost 1 in every 3 seats in the stadium. It is clear that our stated policy for the major shareholders, namely Mr Kroenke and ourselves, to inject non-dividend paying equity into the Club by way of a rights issue to reduce the debt and invest in the future is of no interest to the Board. Mr Kroenke was sold a vision by the Board at the time that the Club could be successful without further investment, so he is pursuing a similar policy which is to run the Club without any investment and to avoid any dilution of his equity, a good part of which was funded by a loan from Deutsche Bank AG to KSE, UK, Inc. at the time of the mandatory offer. The status of that loan and whether it is still outstanding has not been clarified by Mr Kroenke.
    As a consequence of this policy, which is dressed up as prudent financial planning, it is down to our manager, and not the shareholders, to have to deal with the Club’s tight finances, carry the burden of repaying the stadium debt by selling his best players and having to continue to find cheaper replacements. All of that, naturally, comes at the expense of performance on the pitch….

  59. tsGH says:

    The performance of the players as I have said a few times is possibly summed on by TV reaction after he found out VP had been sold in August after the Belgium vs Holland match.

    I do not have a link to the English version but again his body language speaks the truth… and he was supposedly best friends with him so it should not have been a shock

    http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/the-moment-thomas-vermaelen-found-out-robin-van-persie-left-arsenal-for-manchester-united/

  60. rico says:

    Thanks Tsgh, will have a peep in a bit…

    Got to pop off for a bit….

  61. Scott from Oz says:

    It has been a very good read tonight.
    I am off to bed guys…hope you all have great day.
    Catch you tomorrow.

  62. tsGH says:

    night scott and Oz

  63. Bendtnersgone says:

    Hi all, some more interesting points here today. What’s really annoying is that the club are worse than M15. It’s so cloak and dagger we never know what’s happening.

  64. JW says:

    Good afternoon all,

    Too much negativity, I’ll be back when there is something more interesting to discuss. :neutral:

  65. Joaquim Moreira says:

    Who is Robson ?
    Arsenal has now many problems. Mostly of them you post them.
    The other one has a name: Chelsea and totts

  66. tsGH says:

    Bould on the purported rift between AW and himself-

    http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/1262032?&cc=5739#

  67. tsGH says:

    Hi JW How are you?

    The question people should be asking Stuart Robson is why and what gives Bould the credentials to take over training instead of AW? What % of matches did SB win at u-18 level?

    If people will believe Robson then well, they will believe man has been on the moon but I guess that is another story..

  68. frednerk says:

    Funny ain’t it,every gooner I know now even the one’s including me who have supported wenger are starting to slag him off.
    Robson got sacked by arsenal tv (wenger) for basicly pointing out that we never had a clue how to defend.

    They’s something wrong at the arsenal?

    If the manager ain’t got the bollox to tell us,why is it we all want to shoot the messenger.

  69. rico says:

    Afternoon peoples….

  70. SD London says:

    Well it all comes down to Carzola and Charmakh missing their penalty kicks.

    It was terrible.

    I had a privilege to play on a standard picth for a few spell and i tell you the standard goal post is very wide.I always tell people that it is almost unforgiving for a professional to be hitting the post or shooting over the bar from a spot kick.

    If the goal keeper catches the ball it is 50 -50 but hitting the post is unforgiving.

    Had those two players scored , we wouldn’t have needed TV to score (he is a defender) i was sure Shezney was going to cath at least one but he got two.

    So Carzola and Charmach let us down.

  71. Hi Rico and All

    @Lawrence, you make my day…
    “I have no time for the board what so ever. I even read Ivan the terrible saying that all gooners where onboard with project profits.
    Well he did not ask me, I would have given him my size ten foot up his arse.”

  72. Joaquim Moreira says:

    ok, Robson is another opinion maker.
    today its Cazorla birthday.
    Out of the League Cup our targer it’s the FA Cup.
    i’m waiting for a much better 2013

  73. rico says:

    Don’t know what happened there :(

    Afternoon again….

  74. arsenal11730 says:

    Hello Lads and Lassies,

    I am in the Christmas Spirit, but Arsenal continue trying to drag me down. My missus is proud that i am trying to ignore our current plight, as it would be a sad Christmas.
    For the last 3 1/2 decades, as Arsenal goes so did I.
    If we won Saturday at 3pm, i went out and partied, if we lost stayed in and sulked. I am trying to be mature now.
    There are many members within our squad, who do not give a toss about the crest.
    AW continues to molly cuddle these wimps, and until he stops this Colney Creche methodology, we will be a mentally weak team with no heart or fight.
    It is clear and apparent, that we miss that “Drive and Desire” that exists with Manure, Chavs and possibly the Sheikhs.
    As AST said last night, there has to be a shakeup of the board, we are in the 21st century, this Old Etonian BOD is old and weathered.
    The Hill Woods association with Arsenal must cease immediately.
    DD should be reinstalled as Chairman, and his son as director.
    We all believe Kroenke views us as a business, and not a Love. That combination is destined for failure.
    We need a real Gooner owner, who cares and respects the REAL FANS…
    AW may just take the Arab PSG offer, season end, and kick off into the sunset.
    I truly do believe PEP wants us, as we are the most stable,dignified,professional organization, and based in London…
    We need discipline,order, tactics and pride reinstalled into our play and club overall.
    Unfortunately only a change at the top whether BOD/manager or both, can do that….
    We BLEED RED and it hurts….
    Cheers Mates

  75. rico says:

    Hi a117…

    What else to say really, think you have covered it….

  76. Adam says:

    Hi Rico. No Pep for you then?

  77. tsGH says:

    DD loves Arsenal so much that he sold his shares to the first bidder?lol

    Its money and business period. Even with the Sheikh Mansour its business. With Roman and escape from Russia and a footprint in London and invest in the city…

    He said it himself in 2002 with Gates in an interview…

  78. Adam says:

    Arsenal11730. An interesting post. But are you referring to Darren Dein?

  79. rico says:

    Hi Adam, no Pep for me…..

  80. Adam says:

    Who receives your vote then Rico?

  81. rico says:

    I missed the Dein bit a11730. I think that ship has sailed and he’s not getting any younger.

    I mentioned Karen Brady earlier, don’t think she’d suffer fools….

  82. rico says:

    I’m not sure Adam, I know I keep saying about getting Arsenal back into Arsenal.

    Bergkamp would be my first choice but travel is a problem. I’d also like Keown on the coaching team, maybe even Adams …

    Marc van Basten or Frank de Boer are others I wouldn’t mind…

    The theme is Dutch :)

  83. Bendtnersgone says:

    A gooner friend of mine asked me earlier today if I think that Wenger is just as sick of this situation as we all are and is still around out of love for and loyalty to Arsenal.
    He thinks the reason he’s signed so many duds of late is due to the constant pressure to unearth yet more gems for rock bottom prices because the board don’t back him for the big names.
    I think I don’t know what I think anymore but I’d like to think there’s some truth in it.

    Anyone else?

  84. arsenal11730 says:

    Adam – Yes i mean Darren Dein, even though he has hurt us with player sales.
    Mainly because what they did to his dad, and the bad bllod that exists with the BOD.
    Having father and son onboard, would create a solidified and intelligent front.

    TSG – Agreed: DD did sell out to the highest bidder, but there was bad blood with him and the board.
    It was a calculated gamble by aligning with AU, thinking there would be a takeover. I truly believe DD still loves Arsenal. More than Gazidis, Kroenke and the entire BOD combined.

    Rico – Agree DD is not a spring chicken, but he Loves Arsenal and is still a good businessman. DD and AW are a good team who can achieve mighty things together once again and they are true friends.

  85. arsenal11730 says:

    One important point with PEP.
    Without the triumvirate of Messi, Iniesta and Xavi. How successful would Barca and PEP been??
    Is he a better than average manager, blessed with 3 world class individuals at the right place at the right time????

    What i do like about PEP is – He is the BOSS and takes NO crap as a player and manger.
    He is a rigid disciplinarian, tactician and believes in team ethos and ethics.

  86. rico says:

    Hi Bg, another good post today, thank you…

    I’m not sure about that idea, just can’t se why anyone would want to do that and suffer their own reputation along the way…

  87. Adam says:

    Interesting stuff.

  88. rico says:

    a117 – I wouldn’t moan if DD came back under AU but why go back?

    Our club needs to go forward with new ideas…. but that’s just my own view….

  89. tsGH says:

    Rico I take my hat off to you on De Boer. I think he is a younger Fergie.

    On Pep, Braca fans claim he lacked a plan B. Have we heard that before? I am not saaying Pep is bad since no one knows. But I do know is that if you drive a BMW and you need to drive in snow you do not go and buy a Mercedez or a latest model BMW…

    A few bright sparks will reply with ’13 trophies in 4 years’, yes, but how much of that is down to him?

    A couple of decades ago Johan Cruyff, one of the worlds greatest and most technically adept football players, installed a footballing philosophy into Barcelona and its youth team. Everyone, at every level of the club, plays the same kind of football with the same group of players in a way which some times, bedazzle the senses. It took a while for that team to materialise, but here they are, ready to just be put infront of people and pass them into oblivion. It’s a remarkable achievement which has very little of Pep Guardiola to do with it. They don’t need a good manager to win things, they just need a great manager to make sure this one off phenomenon of players doesn’t fade sooner than it should. They don’t have that.

    Similarly, teams talk about over reliance on players, no greater example of this is Messi’s role in Barcelona. He is a footballing phenomenon and one of the very few Barcelona players who would be capable in England (Chelsea’s dominating physical display really show that Barcelona couldn’t play teams like Stoke, McLeish’s Birmingham, every week and come out on top), and he is their only real threat. When he doesn’t perform Barcelona don’t perform and his brilliance carries a team unable to see any other option but him doing it all for them.

    After 3 years of complete dominance, is their time over due to a manager incapable of building consistent squads, adding experience, individuality and a plan B to a team that is almost perfect, but are now to easy to find out, I think so

  90. rico says:

    What, my Dutch theme Adam :)

  91. Adam says:

    Obviously Rico. I will stick with Pep as I think he knows a shit player when he sees one. :)

  92. tsGH says:

    A11730 the bad blood was started by DD aligning himself with Stan first. He brought Stan to Arsenal remember folks…And then there was his motive to be the FA head by suggesting that we shared Wembley instead. All these guys are snakes that is why when people slate AW for selling players and his salary I think it is very ill-informed…

  93. rico says:

    Ts, he’s not, he’s a 42 year old Frank De Boer..

    Fergie just gets the right coaching staff, assistant etc. And he’s not even as ‘mouthy’ in the changing room as reported by the media…

  94. Bendtnersgone says:

    Thanks for posting it Rico.
    I’m far from convinced myself mate but given what Arsenal 11730 just said about Wenger and DD still being close, perhaps something is in the pipeline regarding Red & White which may see him back in the fold. Afterall, initially Stan was never going to get in. Now look. And if PHW stands down the last of the old board goes with him, I think.
    That would suit Wenger. Maybe he’d cling on with diminished reputation for that. And £7.5m pa of course. :-D

  95. rico says:

    I think most managers do Adam, just not ours these days ;)

  96. Adam says:

    Rico. You cynic. :)

  97. tsGH says:

    Some of Peps buys include:-

    Martin Caceres 16.5M,
    Hleb 15M,Dmytro Chygrinskiy 25M,
    Henrique 8M, Zlatan Ibrahimovic €69.5 million (€49.5 million cash plus €20 million-rated Samuel Eto’o),
    Keirrison 18M.

    I will leave the list there so before people go on about AW record please have the facts… ;)

  98. rico says:

    No need to thank me Bg, it’s a huge help, especially through times like we are going through….

    AW and DD are definitely still good friends but as many have said, AW is starting to look quite ill. If he is doing all this just to get SK out, he must be mad. Even £7.5M a year is not worth having if it nearly kills you…

    Talking of which, anyone know how the old fart is after his heart attack?

  99. Adam says:

    That’s it then. Pep’s off the list.

  100. tsGH says:

    I meant De Boer of Ajax could be as good as Fergie in people’s eyes…

  101. rico says:

    I didn’t think Pep was the manager when Hleb signed….

  102. tsGH says:

    I can give the Pep lovers more if they want on his atrocious buys Adam ;)

    Gabriel Milito 20M, have you seen him play? Jeez

    Like most say Cruyff is the best manager ever and he thinks AW is the best manager or was until this season. I would rather listen to a man who made Ajax and Barcelona than a WHU fan in Robson.

  103. rico says:

    Ah, sorry Ts, I thought you were comparing….

  104. tsGH says:

    Rico Hleb signed for Barca in Summer 2008 after the Eduardo injury and Pep was in that job 16 months before

  105. Adam says:

    Thanks but no thanks TSGH. I have moved on to Harry Redknapp now.

  106. rico says:

    I just checked Ts and seen…

    BY the way, the bit missing from your last comment is gone because that is my topic tomorrow… ;)

  107. rico says:

    He’d soon whip our lot into shape Adam….

  108. Adam says:

    So would Max Mosley Rico. :)

  109. Bendtnersgone says:

    Agreed Rico. It was a fanciful way of looking at things anyway. Just shows that more and more of us are clinging to the hope of there being some dastardly plan afoot to restore balance to the force.

  110. tsGH says:

    ha ha ha Rico .. ;) I can’t remember

  111. rico says:

    He might get us up the pitch a bit quicker Adam…

  112. rico says:

    There is a plan Bg, he’s waiting in the wings :)

  113. rico says:

    Just off for dinner, back shortly….

  114. Adam says:

    My imagination is running riot Rico. As you know, I am a big fan of corporal punishment in sport.

  115. tsGH says:

    uday hussein is what the players need…

  116. tsGH says:

    Fergie RedNoses’ bad buys in recent time:

    Massimo Taibi he makes Flapianiski look like Peter Shilton
    Sebastian Veron
    Ralph Milne
    Diego Forlan
    Bébé
    Kleberson
    Gabriel Obertan
    Anderson 24M on 75kp/w how many matches does he play a season?
    David May
    Laurent Blanc a version of Le Squid
    Quinton Fortune a la Santos
    Eric Djemba-Djemba
    David Bellion
    Alan Smith

  117. tsGH says:

    Bg your namesake may be coming back, after the lil injury he had last night.

  118. Scott from Oz says:

    Morning all.
    So the debate rages on as to who our next manager might be.
    Dennis…..easy!

  119. tsGH says:

    I think a creative player and a DM are as much of a priority as a striker in January and I’m more convinced of that than ever. Cazorla is a wonderful player, but he’s not the creative catalyst some think he is.
    His dive against West Brom on Saturday left him with a second assist in a period of twelve matches. In total he has created less than 10 goal scoring chances. And 4 came in his first 3 matches for us.

    He has many qualities that are of great benefit to the side but he’s not really a playmaker. Jack is a wonderful dribbler and a great passer, but he’s more in the “fetch and carry” mould and not a genuine defence splitter. We don’t really have that sort of player in the squad.

    So who are my candidates for that roll, Dev mentioned Patore of PSG but can we afford him. Another option who can definitely do a DB10 job for us is De Jong of Ajax but will Frank allow him to join Arsenal? He is still bitter about AW rejecting him over 10 years ago.

    The way thinks stand only Honda or sick-note Gourchuff will do that AM job we need as we know we can not rely on TR07.

  120. tsGH says:

    Up again Scott? lol

  121. tsGH says:

    Dennis if you are a shrink to sort out his phobia… lol

    His wife must be very cheesed off. With all the money in the world he would not fly to exotic destinations with the family…

  122. tsGH says:

    Huddink. But that man must be very troubled to take jobs in places no one else wants to go. Korea, Russia etc

  123. rico says:

    You are a hard man Adam…

    I didn’t think Wenger held any talks with JV

    Dennis has travel issues Scott, but he’d be top of my list….

  124. tsGH says:

    That is what the independent are reporting Rico as direct quote from JV…

    Courtesy of Arseblog

    …. Yesterday, I watched him interviewed on Sky Sports, standing outside the ground, and in amongst the salient points he made – and let’s remember he was making them in an interview with that transfer loving gimp of a presenter and as such there was always going to be a measure of hyperbole – one of his criticisms was over how Arsene Wenger reacted to Eduardo having his leg snapped in two by Martin Taylor. Really? Yes, Arsenal fell away that season from a good position, but it wasn’t down to how the manager dealt with a disgusting tackle by not that kind of player.

    No doubt that game had an impact, it shell-shocked the squad to an extent, but lost in the madness is the fact we also lost Sagna and Flamini to injury shortly afterwards, two players who had been instrumental in the team’s good form and solidity. And look, if I’m a manager and I see a great player lying stricken on the floor with his leg hanging in pieces I think I might have some choice words to say too. Eduardo’s Arsenal career never recovered, Robson using that years later to stick the knife in is a cheap shot indeed.

    It’s also much easier to believe stories like this when things aren’t going well. Arsene Wenger was at a funeral the day before the Swansea game, it seems his fitness coaches took the session. Maybe it was a fitness based session? I don’t know the ins and outs of it, but perhaps there’s more to it than we realise. People suggest there’s a lack of communication between Wenger and Bould on the bench, it’s hard to know as TV cameras aren’t trained on them for the duration of the game.
    Very very good post…

  125. Scott from Oz says:

    The travel doesn’t worriy me Rico….the positives make up for it ten fold.
    I would still bring Hiddink in short term and ease Adennis in.
    Ginge,i am always up mate lol

  126. tsGH says:

    And that is what I respect about us and AW. He keeps all the transfer dealings quiet unlike ‘arry who wants brownie points from Jim White of Sky sports….

  127. Scott from Oz says:

    Once again Ginge,i say Wenger makes plenty of mistakes,but he does a bloody lot right.
    Focus will always be on the mistakes in a high profile position.

  128. tsGH says:

    Very true Scott. He will be turning water into wine if he could turn every 19 y.o recruit into a PV or VP…

    Fergie had 24M to spent plus the 30M in salary but he could not trust himself to recruit a 25 y.o striker.

  129. emma says:

    Goodday gunnersphere,
    AW is still the right man for the job. He consistently gets us into the champions league place despite the sales of our best players just to keep the club going.
    Imagine we don’t sell our best players, what arsenal could have become ‘Champions’.

  130. tsGH says:

    hi Emma. If I say I agree with you I will be preaching to the converter so I would not bother. :-D

  131. rico says:

    I did see that in the Independent Ts, but who knows, a bit like the striker who said he chose Everton and there were others i think…

  132. rico says:

    Hi emma…

    Wenger does make plenty of mistakes, I’ll give you all that ;)

  133. Scott from Oz says:

    Not a bad effort Ginge…
    Rico,credit wher credit is due though.
    If people are going to criticise,then they should also acknowledge the good.

  134. rico says:

    This is quite interesting by Jeff Stelling…

    http://www.skysports.com/opinion/story/0,,12088_8330207,00.html

  135. emma says:

    We may question AW tactics and if he has lost his hunger to win. But he still has a lot to offer. For those clamoring for Pep how many youth players was he able to bring through before he left Barca. Pep success was as a result of the products left by Frank Rijkaard and nothing else. It will be interesting to see what he does in another club then we will be able to measure if he is a good or average coach. Don’t even get me started with Mourinho

  136. rico says:

    His job is to manage on the pitch imho Scott, and I don’t think he’s doing that at all well these days….

    All the financial stuff, surely that is someone else’s role and they should take any credit people want to give it out…

  137. Scott from Oz says:

    I agree Rico,but he has been put ito the position of handling all the other crap……who is responsible for tha decision?
    That is why i have always said that whether people like Wenger or not,the board is to blame.
    They hold the power….if they choose to pass it over to Wenger,that is their choice and they should be held accountable.
    If things go wrong on the pitch,they are responisble to make the changes necessary to reverse that,whether it means giving Wenger cash and demanding he spend it or replacing him…..the responsibility is theirs.
    Any board that hands control over to an individual is negligent in their duties……it contradicts the reasons behind having a board in the first place!!!

  138. rico says:

    What other crap Scott?

  139. Scott from Oz says:

    We know he does more than merely manage the first grade squad.

  140. rico says:

    What though? He’s the manager, what else does he actually do?

  141. Scott from Oz says:

    Well he makes a 20 million profit on transfers each season as demanded…..should that be his job???
    Shouldn’t a manager hand a list of players he’d like and let those who should be doing it make things happen??

  142. Scott from Oz says:

    Are you suggesting he has not been instrumental and setting up the club,facilities,youth system,stadium etc,etc to have us where we are today???

  143. Scott from Oz says:

    He has too much on his plate,and should be just looking after the on pitch stuff.
    What should happen and what happens are two different things though.

  144. arsenal11730 says:

    Fair Point – TSG they are all snakes.
    I would however rather have onboard a snake who Loves Arsenal and cash, rather than a snake who is just in it for the dough.
    Very good writeup Bentdnersgone to creat such a superb debate.
    Rico you have the fairest, most respectful enjoyable Gooner Blog around. I LOVE IT.
    Your participants are respectful, good natured and we are all TRUE GOONERS at heart, no matter what continent we reside in. We all BLEED RED.
    Cheers Mates

  145. rico says:

    £20M profit last summer, how did he do that by selling RvP and Song and then signing Podolski, Giroud and Cazorla?

  146. rico says:

    Sorry Scott,

    The Emirates and LC etc was all done a long time ago, he can’t live on that for ever..

  147. rico says:

    But I think he chooses to poke his nose into everything.

    Thanks a117, we do try and keep it friendly…

  148. Bendtnersgone says:

    Ts, yay, that takes care of losing Chamakh and Gervinho, he’ll be like a new signing. When he gets over his injury. And loses a few pounds. And gains some humility……

  149. Scott from Oz says:

    Once again though Rico,i say if he sticks his nose in,there are people in a position to tlel hm so bugger off,but they do not.
    Prople often ask why Wenger and his players are not held accountable for poor results…those that SHOULD hold them accountable choose to take no responsibilty themselves.
    The club lacks leadership from the very top.

  150. rico says:

    But that goes back to him having too much control Scott, and having an owner who is miles away from the club and out of touch…

    I have a feeling that Wenger tells Gazidis what to do rather than the other way round…

    Leadership comes at different levels too, his leadership of the team is not working right now, and that can’t be denied by him, but what is he doing to change it?

    Whatever he is doing, clearly isn’t working….

  151. rico says:

    Anyway, I am done for the day, it’s already getting past my bedtime ;)

    ‘Til tomorrow all,

    Night night….

  152. emma says:

    rico – we all make mistakes. It must hurt AW to see his best players leaving just as it hurts us. Most have really let him down. After investing his time and energy training them to become what they are, instead of repaying him, the moment £$ starts flashing before their very eyes they disappear. TW was regarded as a brainless player with a good speed but couldn’t control the ball. When the fans were clamouring for Walcott to be sold AW still stick with him, playing him despite the slack he was getting from the fans. He knew that TW has age on his side and will come good. Now he is coming good he is holding the club to ransom.TW feels he has arrived and now about to turn his back on the only one person who believed in him(AW) during those turbulent times. It must really hurt. Like tsGH said if TW were to be playing for rednose he would have being sold a long time ago.
    AW must have made mistakes in the purchase of Chamakh, Gerv etc But I still remember that Chamakh was one of the most sort after striker in europe after his CL exploit. While Gerv was the hottest striker in ligue1 before he moved to us
    Sometimes it just don’t always turns out the way you want it. Some will come good and some fade into oblivion. ;)

  153. rico says:

    emma – For sure it must be annoying and hurtful to see so many players go but, don’t he must be part of the decision made to let them go surely?

    I realise that some leave for money, but i also believe that some actually leave to win things.

    And my own view is that TW would have improved at any other club a lot quicker than he has with us. And i’m not just saying that because he is one of my favs, I truly believe he would….

    But the board has to go first imho….

  154. rico says:

    Def gone now….

  155. tsGH says:

    Excellent post Emma. Some fans are living in a fantasy with their expectations. I have only supported Arsenal maybe 25-27 years and if it was not for AW we will still be playing with John Hartson and Mertson etc. Now people are asking about Falcao. Why did we not bid for Van Basten all those years ago?

    Saying that AW is our biggest issue is a complete show of disregard imo. When we lost DD if we had ‘arry and the likes like him instead of AW where would the club be?

  156. tsGH says:

    … TW would have improved at any other club a lot quicker than he has with us. And i’m not just saying that because he is one of my favs, I truly believe he would…. now that sounds like a comment Paul Merson would say. Hypothetical.

    How many players has RedNose improved since the Butt, Scholes, DB, Giggs era? 2 is the answer. Maybe Wooney. How many of Fergies players under him have been chosen in the top 3 best European players compared to AW.

    Night Rico

  157. tsGH says:

    Why was it that it was AW who was negotiating the sale of VP and Cazorla when we have D. Law and IG and the financial guys taking 2m a year salary.

    AW has so much power he is setted on the far end on the LHS of the board bench during the AGM… lol

    Anyway enough of that. ..

  158. tsGH says:

    he is seated … even

  159. tsGH says:

    All players become footbalers for money first and then maybe trophies. Since the formation of the EPL less than 8% of players who have played in it have won a title. Are the rest of the 92% failures? Its a big myth in line with the saying soldiers join the forces to fight wars and kill people…

  160. Robson, well his name said it all..

    Arsenal’s Arsene Wenger Being Savaged by Self-Serving, Cynical Attacks
    BY JAMES DUDKO (FEATURED COLUMNIST) ON DECEMBER 13, 2012 1,200 reads 27
    Use your ← → (arrow) keys to browse more storiesNext
    Mike Hewitt/Getty Images
    Enough is enough. Arsene Wenger is not immune to criticism, but that does not mean he deserves to be subjected to the kind of self-serving, cynical attacks that fill the UK press this morning.

    Wenger is being publicly ripped apart by dark and ugly half truths, shouted by an angry mob, seeking to service their own agendas. The chief culprit has to be ex-Gunner Stewart Robson.

    Why do people take Robson’s opinions so seriously? The day after the farcical defeat to Bradford City, Robson went on Sky Sports and proceeded to eviscerate Wenger’s managerial credentials and his character.

    Robson referred to Wenger as a “dictator” and pointed to a faltering relationship with assistant manager Steve Bould. This is not the first time Robson has declared Wenger and Bould don’t see eye to eye.

    Claims of a rift between Wenger and Bould are growing, without any proof.
    Scott Heavey/Getty Images
    Yet it’s also not the first time he has failed to offer any proof, or establish any credence to his claims. However, fuelling the fires of a supposed rift with Bould, reinforces the view Wenger is a “dictator” and so serves Robson’s agenda.

    It’s no surprise that Steve Bould is being used in this way. When Arsenal began the new season with three clean sheets, there was something uncomfortable about the level of praise Bould received.

    Arsenal’s new-found defensive solidity was all down to Bould and nothing to do with Wenger. It was as if Wenger couldn’t spell defender unless Bould showed him how.

    At the time it was so obvious that as soon as Arsenal began conceding goals, it would be Wenger’s fault. Bould, meanwhile, would bear no responsibility.

    So it has proved and Robson is only too happy to put the boot in.

    Stewart Robson’s criticisms are getting vicious and are wide of the mark.
    Laurence Griffiths/Getty Images
    One of the highlights of Robson’s Sky interview following Arsenal’s cup exit, was the claim Bradford boss Phil Parkinson had proved himself a superior manager to Wenger.

    Careful Stewart, your bias is starting to show. Because if that’s the case, then congratulations Steve Tilson, you’re better than Sir Alex Ferguson.

    It was Tilson who managed Southend United when they shocked the Red Devils 1-0 in the 2006 League Cup. Ferguson had Wayne Rooney and Cristiano Ronaldo in that squad.

    Robson’s claim about Parkinson goes right alongside Piers Morgan’s claim in a November interview for talkSPORT that Wenger should be replaced by a British manager to help promote more English talent.

    Really? Is one of Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, Kieran Gibbs, Carl Jenkinson, Theo Walcott, or Jack Wilshere French and not told anyone?

    However, the prevailing notion when criticising Wenger appears to be to never let the facts get in the way of the agenda. Never mind the report in The Independent, claiming Steve Bould is angry about the rumours of a so-called rift with Wenger.

    Ray Parlour has come to the defense of his former manager and surely he would know?
    Ian Walton/Getty Images
    Better still, to ignore Ray Parlour’s claims, reported by London 24, that Wenger is no dictator. Parlour actually played for Wenger, but don’t let that stop you, Stewart.

    Debating the rights and wrongs of Wenger’s tenure is sadly being taken by some as an opportunity to attack everything they don’t like about the club. It should better informed than that.

    There are criticisms to be made about Wenger. Specifically, the quality of his recent transfers and his insistence on relying on a formation designed to suit players who have since been sold.

    Sadly, these legitimate gripes are drowned out by sensationalist headlines that serve the agendas of vultures determined to send Wenger packing in disgrace.

    Whether you support Wenger or believe he must be replaced, he surely deserves fairer treatment than this.

  161. Is it for the cash or something else…

    Stan Kroenke ‘has no passion’ for Arsenal according to ex-director

    Majority shareholder Stan Kroenke has been accused of “having no passion” for Arsenal by honorary vice president, and former director, Lady Bracewell-Smith.
    Bracewell-Smith, who sold Kroenke her shares last year, tweeted: “If making money was the motivating factor, surely there are better ways.
    Continue reading the main story

    “[Kroenke] shows he cares very little. Why he wanted to be part of AFC I do not know”

    Lady Bracewell-Smith
    Former Arsenal director
    She continued: “Football is a business of passion. SK has no passion for AFC.”
    Arsenal, beaten by Bradford in the League Cup, could not be contacted.
    When asked her view of the way the club is being run, Bracewell-Smith added: “Disappointed would be an understatement!
    “[He] shows he cares very little. Why he wanted to be part of AFC I do not know.”
    In October Kroenke insisted Arsenal are still targeting trophies despite the Gunners selling captain Robin van Persie to rivals Manchester United in August.
    Van Persie’s departure followed the sales of Cesc Fabregas and Samir Nasri the previous summer.
    There is also uncertainty over the future of England international Theo Walcott, whose contract expires next summer.

  162. rico says:

    Ts – your 10.05.

    It’s my opinion and that’s what HH and other places are for, to share opinion. As for Fergie, well we all now know that he isn’t the ‘coach’ – he get’s the right coaches in to do his work and then takes the credit.

    But and without sounding rude, I don’t give a stuff about what he does or doesn’t do, other than beating us every time we play them these days…

    Morning all….

  163. rico says:

    Off out this morning – new post will be up around 9.30, catch you there…

  164. tsGH says:

    Morning all…

    Hi Rico. I hope you were not thinking I was taking shoots at you. ;)

    You will never hear me defend AW’s tactics post the Norwich defeat because even though I believe in him I think he has become too close to the line being drawn to see how straight it is.

    But what I do defend him about is when people without any fact or knowledge of other managers and their playing style say AW has no plan B but another coach has one. Has Fergie got a Plan B, apart from pull out his cheque book? Is he thinking about the legacy of the club or his own interest? You are right we dont care about Rednose but as in any contest you have to know your opponent/adversary.

    Last year Piers Morgan thought O’Neil should replace AW after the 8-2 lose but what is he doing to Sunderland?

    And even when the press slate us for having no mental strength for the last 2 seasons stats show we have the best come back record…

    Furthermore, we should note that Piers Morgan turned down a basic salary of £1M from Arsenal purely because he wanted more.

    And as an ex-soldier I do not respect Piers and his dubious tactics of fabricating stories to meet his agenda when he in fact put his country men at risk. Black, white or yellow or brown.

  165. Scott from Oz says:

    Who the hell is Piers Morgan anyway??
    Morning all.

  166. tsGH says:

    Morning scott,

    Piers Morgan is now the Larry King of CNN. He is a British Jew whose parents supported the scums but he says he decided to support Arsenal from the youth onwards.

    If you have heard of the leveson inquiry in the UK he is allegedly a culprit, but I guess if you are put on the front of GQ magazine in a fellowcraft degree pose you are immune from certain things.

    My major beef with him is he published faked photographs of British soldiers abusing Iraqis in the Daily Mirror which put a lot of soldiers at risk and he was sacked and disgraced for it.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2004/may/15/mirror.politicsandthemedia

    You can read about him here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piers_Morgan

  167. Scott from Oz says:

    Ginge,top of the morning.
    i do know a little bit about him…not a great deal….but he comes across as an absolute wanker.
    I shall follow your link and see if first impressions are right!!

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